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Interesting read if you think Halloween is an American import

82 replies

Anoisagusaris · 30/10/2018 21:56

Taken from a FB page, can’t claim credit as its author:

Samhain (Halloween) has its roots in the pagan traditions of the ancient Celts, who believed that the year was divided into a light half and a dark half. To the Celts, each day was seen as beginning at sunset and so the new year was also thought to begin with the arrival of the darkness, at Samhain.

Marking the end of the harvest and the beginning of winter, Samhain has been an important date since ancient times. It is mentioned in some of the earliest Irish literature and many important events in Irish mythology happen or begin at Samhain.

Although its date is now fixed on the 31st of October, Samhain would have originally been celebrated a few days later, on the astronomical Cross-quarter day, mid way between the Autumn equinox and the Winter solstice (around November 5th). The other cross-quarter days are Imbolc, Bealtaine, and Lughnasadh, all of which are ancient festival days.

In the mid-8th Century, Pope Gregory III moved the date of All Hallows Day (All Saints Day) from 13th May (the date of the Roman festival of the Dead) to 1st November, possibly to "Christianise" the festival of Samhain. The night before ‘All Hallows Day’ then became known as ‘All Hallows Eve’ which was shortened to ‘Halloween’.

Samhain was seen as a liminal time, when the veil between this world and the otherworld was lifted, allowing the Aos Sí (faeries or spirits) to pass through. In order to appease these spirits, people would leave food for them outside the house. Children would wear costumes and masks to disguise themselves, in order to confuse the Aos Sí and thus avoid being harmed or abducted.

The dead were also honoured at Samhain. The souls of those who had died since the previous Samhain were thought to revisit their homes, seeking hospitality before leaving for the otherworld. Places were set at the dinner table and by the fire to welcome them.

Bonfires are traditionally associated with Samhain, when all fires would be extinguished and re-lit from the Samhain bonfire. These fires were deemed to have protective and cleansing powers with various associated rituals.

Many of the traditional halloween games were attempts to divine the future of those gathered, especially with regard to death and marriage. A fruit cake called Barm Brack is traditionally served at Samhain, inside which symbolic items were hidden. A person's future was foretold by the item they happened to find in their slice; for example a ring meant marriage and a coin meant wealth.

Jack-o-lanterns (now made from pumpkins, which come from America), is another tradition that originated in Ireland, where the lanterns were made from turnips or swedes. A folktale about a blacksmith named Jack who outsmarts the devil and wandered the earth undead, gave the lanterns their name.

During the 1840’s the Great Potato Famine forced nearly one million people to emigrate from Ireland to the United States, taking their Samhain/Halloween traditions with them. The earliest references to Halloween appeared in America shortly afterwards and since then it has become one of the countries largest holidays.

Oíche Shamhna Shona Daoibh. . . !

Happy Samhain. . . !

OP posts:
Lughofthelongarm · 30/10/2018 22:40

Thank you!

tectonicplates · 30/10/2018 23:10

It's not Halloween itself that's seen as American. It's the over-commercialisation and the amount of money being spent.

Shriekingbanshee · 30/10/2018 23:16

Thank you for posting. Agreed, we always had Halloween, just never remember all the trick or treating like the states, until I had DC.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Bunnybigears · 30/10/2018 23:21

I dont think many people think Halloween is American it is the over commercialised version of Halloween which has come from America. We used to have a carved turnip a bin bag and a witches hat if we were lucky.

pallisers · 30/10/2018 23:21

It's not Halloween itself that's seen as American. It's the over-commercialisation and the amount of money being spent.

Because that is american? Oh sorry forgot it is ok on MN to be truly offensive as long as it is directed at americans.

RaininSummer · 30/10/2018 23:22

I know about the Pagan history but nobody ever did anything for Halloween when I was growing up in the 60s and 70s which is why the modern phenomenon is seen as an import.

pallisers · 30/10/2018 23:43

I know about the Pagan history but nobody ever did anything for Halloween when I was growing up in the 60s and 70s which is why the modern phenomenon is seen as an import.

I think the OP's point may be that it is as likely to be an Irish import as an american one. I grew up in same time period in Ireland and halloween was a thing we did a lot for. one school friend had a halloween party every year. We dipped for apples, had barmbrack with the ring, the rag, the stick etc. it was a big thing.

For what it is worth I live in the US and we celebrate as I remember in Ireland - the churches celebrate all saints/all souls, kids dress up, families have traditions. A lovely thing we didn't have in Ireland is nearly every town will have an afternoon event the friday closest to halloween where children can dress up and local businesses hand out sweets or treats (or toothbrushes if you are a dentist). It is a really nice community event. My kids are late teens now but when I saw the little kids toddling along in their costumes last friday it brought it all back -really nice memories.

CoachBombay · 30/10/2018 23:49

It's noson calan geaf in Wales, and has been celebrated for centuries. I was scared shitless as a child being told that the "Yr Hwch Ddu Gwta" would come and steal my sole after dark...but the apple bobbing was fun haha!

If you want to see something truly frightening however wait for them to come round with the horse skull covered in ribbons and bells!! Bloody terrified me as a child and that's at fecking Christmas time not Halloween! It's called the Mari Lwyd of anyone fancies a Google!!

Windyone · 30/10/2018 23:52

We have this conversation every year on MN. It's always been a thing in Scotland and Ireland.

CoachBombay · 30/10/2018 23:54

Windy ...and Wales.

Surprise, surprise the 3 Celtic nations!

Esspee · 30/10/2018 23:56

I believe it depends which part of the UK you live in whether or not the ancient traditions survived. When I was a child we would dress up and visit neighbours where we would be invited in and would entertain the household with a song, poem, dance, magic trick etc. We would then be rewarded with cake, fruit, nuts etc. Lanterns were carved out of turnip/swede. Sometimes there would be "dooking for apples" which involved apples floating in a basin or bathtub of water which you had to catch with your teeth or treacle scones which were suspended on string and when you took bites your face got covered in treacle.
The current American style of trick or treat where random hoards of children roam the streets demanding sweets from householders is very different. Sad that our traditions are being altered and commercialism has taken over.

greenlanes · 31/10/2018 00:16

I really really miss the proper celebration of Guy Fawkes and believe the Hallmark commercialisation of Halloween - which is American - has destroyed part of this country's heritage. I sometimes think this discussion is part of the Mumsnet world vs real life. Before I joined mumnset years ago the only people I knew in RL who did anything for Halloween were Americans who lived in America!

Celticrose · 31/10/2018 00:32

We used to dress up and put on our false faces. Also did the dunking for apples and we also tried to eat apples hung by string with our hands bebind our back. My granny would make a apple tart and inside would be money for wealth, ring for marriage and a button for an old maid.
But the bit I loved where the fireworks
Also my dad would take our gate in so it did'nt get taken. Also people would knock peoples doors and run away or tie some thread to the knocker and use it to knock the door from afar. Tricking without the treats. Also we would have got nuts in the shell and my favourite toffee apples

MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig · 31/10/2018 00:33

Ooh. My birthday is Nov 6th. That explains a lot. Grin

HirplesWithHaggis · 31/10/2018 01:21

greenlanes there is no connection between Guy Fawkes and Hallowe'en, nor is the latter American in origin, as has already been pointed out on this thread, even in the OP! Guising, divination etc were Celtic traditions (so not English) long, long before Europeans "found" America. In America, with hundreds of thousands of Celtic immigrants from land clearances and famine in the Celtic parts of the UK, the traditions evolved, as they do, and have been re-exported to the UK where English folk now complain they're not native...

acivilcontract · 31/10/2018 01:49

I can't speak to where greenlanes grew up but Halloween was thriving in my part of the U.K., dressing up, going out, getting sweets, fruit and even money in exchange for a turn, bobbing for apples, eating threaded scones dipped in treacle with my hands behind my back. Wearing costumes to school, getting prizes for best costumes. Breaking my wrists hollowing out swede, those things were tough.All more than 30 years ago.
Guy Gawkes and bonfire night is a different celebration on a different day. I'm not really sure that it is an more worthy of celebration really but the past was a different time.

pallisers · 31/10/2018 03:07

I really really miss the proper celebration of Guy Fawkes and believe the Hallmark commercialisation of Halloween - which is American - has destroyed part of this country's heritage. I sometimes think this discussion is part of the Mumsnet world vs real life. Before I joined mumnset years ago the only people I knew in RL who did anything for Halloween were Americans who lived in America!

It is funny that you are lamenting the hallmark commercialisation of halloween but you have absolutely no understanding of your own heritage. Guy Fawkes is on Nov 5 - nothing to do with halloween. Nothing at all. Do you know anything about Guy Fawkes? I am Irish and I know this - why don't you?

Halloween has always been celebrated in the celtic countries very close to you. But it might be easier to say "american import" rather than recognise the diversity around you and how you have spectacularly missed it because you are fine with being ignorant.

giantbanger · 31/10/2018 03:11

I hollowed out a turnip (not a swede) and did apple bobbing and guising. And I’m old. Used to have a Halloween party every year and my dad would put the sodas up in the garage and do them with syrup instead of treacle.

Nothing American about it.

giantbanger · 31/10/2018 03:12

And my country - which is in the Uk - never ever celebrates guy fawkes. I assume greenlanes by “this country” you mean only England and now any other of the constituent parts of the Uk?

WitchyMcWitchface · 31/10/2018 03:28

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't guido Fawkes a catholic trying to blow up a Protestant parliament so that might influence which parts of the country cebrated it. I am in a majority Protestants parry of Scotland so out was celebrated and will be on sat night.

giantbanger · 31/10/2018 03:32

Possibly witchy.

We never did Guy Fawkes but we did Halloween.

Shriekingbanshee · 31/10/2018 03:33

Giant, when you say turnip, don't you mean swede (to clarify for those in north and south it will be opposite way round). As turnip so small to carve

giantbanger · 31/10/2018 03:35

No I mean turnip. It’s called a turnip here.

Shriekingbanshee · 31/10/2018 03:43
Halloween Grin So orangey colour inside?
giantbanger · 31/10/2018 03:44

Yes but it’s still called a turnip here.

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