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Interesting read if you think Halloween is an American import

82 replies

Anoisagusaris · 30/10/2018 21:56

Taken from a FB page, can’t claim credit as its author:

Samhain (Halloween) has its roots in the pagan traditions of the ancient Celts, who believed that the year was divided into a light half and a dark half. To the Celts, each day was seen as beginning at sunset and so the new year was also thought to begin with the arrival of the darkness, at Samhain.

Marking the end of the harvest and the beginning of winter, Samhain has been an important date since ancient times. It is mentioned in some of the earliest Irish literature and many important events in Irish mythology happen or begin at Samhain.

Although its date is now fixed on the 31st of October, Samhain would have originally been celebrated a few days later, on the astronomical Cross-quarter day, mid way between the Autumn equinox and the Winter solstice (around November 5th). The other cross-quarter days are Imbolc, Bealtaine, and Lughnasadh, all of which are ancient festival days.

In the mid-8th Century, Pope Gregory III moved the date of All Hallows Day (All Saints Day) from 13th May (the date of the Roman festival of the Dead) to 1st November, possibly to "Christianise" the festival of Samhain. The night before ‘All Hallows Day’ then became known as ‘All Hallows Eve’ which was shortened to ‘Halloween’.

Samhain was seen as a liminal time, when the veil between this world and the otherworld was lifted, allowing the Aos Sí (faeries or spirits) to pass through. In order to appease these spirits, people would leave food for them outside the house. Children would wear costumes and masks to disguise themselves, in order to confuse the Aos Sí and thus avoid being harmed or abducted.

The dead were also honoured at Samhain. The souls of those who had died since the previous Samhain were thought to revisit their homes, seeking hospitality before leaving for the otherworld. Places were set at the dinner table and by the fire to welcome them.

Bonfires are traditionally associated with Samhain, when all fires would be extinguished and re-lit from the Samhain bonfire. These fires were deemed to have protective and cleansing powers with various associated rituals.

Many of the traditional halloween games were attempts to divine the future of those gathered, especially with regard to death and marriage. A fruit cake called Barm Brack is traditionally served at Samhain, inside which symbolic items were hidden. A person's future was foretold by the item they happened to find in their slice; for example a ring meant marriage and a coin meant wealth.

Jack-o-lanterns (now made from pumpkins, which come from America), is another tradition that originated in Ireland, where the lanterns were made from turnips or swedes. A folktale about a blacksmith named Jack who outsmarts the devil and wandered the earth undead, gave the lanterns their name.

During the 1840’s the Great Potato Famine forced nearly one million people to emigrate from Ireland to the United States, taking their Samhain/Halloween traditions with them. The earliest references to Halloween appeared in America shortly afterwards and since then it has become one of the countries largest holidays.

Oíche Shamhna Shona Daoibh. . . !

Happy Samhain. . . !

OP posts:
AdamNichol · 31/10/2018 09:43

The dressing up as ghosts, etc, is something of a (re)import from the US. Irish immigrants took the underlying traditions of Samhain to America, where it blended with Mexican Dia des Muertos and French Catholic Toul les Saints celebrations (then held in April like Odinist New Year). The amalgam became modern hallowe'en and returned to Europe.

LoisWilkerson1 · 31/10/2018 09:45

It's actually a really interesting tradition I've fell down an internet hole reading about it.

Anoisagusaris · 31/10/2018 09:52

In the article I posted, it clearly states that children dressing up and wearing masks is part of the old Samhain traditions.

OP posts:

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AdamNichol · 31/10/2018 10:01

@LoisWilkerson1 - it's surprising that it's survived at all: (original) Easter, Imbolc, Yule, Beltane all effectively bit the dust save for a small band of revivalists.
The tail end of the Roman Empire saw the forced conversion of the Celtic peoples of Britannia to Christianity. Upon the departure of the empire, the Sais (Anglo-Saxon) invasion brought Odinism (or Wodenism if you must) to Britain, with it's April/Spring new year (April Fools day anyone?) and Eostre*. The Great Heathen invasion then brought Norse Odinism to virtually all of what is now England, save Cornwall - pushing saxon Christian converts towards Wales and Ireland. The unification of the Saxons and the conversion of many Danes/Norse then lead to the unbroken pre-eminance of christianity from circa 1000AD; and the eradication of pagan belief began in earnest - though some bits remain as traditions or superstitions.
By then, Celts and Druids and Samhain must have felt like another world. Yet it somehow endured.

AdamNichol · 31/10/2018 10:07

@Anoisagusaris - In the article I posted, it clearly states that children dressing up and wearing masks is part of the old Samhain traditions
Indeed it does. I'm happy to be corrected, but I associate child protection from Faery abduction with the Night's Hunt / Wild hunt of Gwyn Ap Nudd, around Imbolc (later Eostre) time. Though, the replacement of babies with corn dollies would suggest an autumnal event perhaps.

nottakingthisanymore · 31/10/2018 11:59

I am well aware of the history of Halloween but for some of us the plastic tat, trick or treating, guising etc was never a part of out childhood. It’s a regional thing I presume. I only became aware of Halloween when I saw ET. I find the fact you can’t escape from it anywhere quite annoying just like I find the over commercialisation of Christmas hideous.

Quite happy for people to do what they want on Halloween but just leave me alone. I live in a nice area now but previous years have been horrific with people banging on the windows and egging the house.

CoachBombay · 31/10/2018 12:08

It's funny how for some reason everyone always forgets Wales is a Celtic nation and part of the UK.

It's always Scotland and Ireland do it/did it on these threads.

NotDavidTennant · 31/10/2018 12:14

If modern Halloween has nothing to do with America, then how come the pumpkin is such an ubiquitous part of it?

ginghamstarfish · 31/10/2018 12:24

I grew up in Lancashire, and we celebrated Halloween by carving turnip lanterns, bobbing for apples and ... that was it really! Bonfire Night was more important for us. Local families spent weeks building the bonfire in the park opposite our house. Then us kids would make a guy from old clothes stuffed with straw etc, and would hang around outside the village post office asking for 'a penny for the guy'. On Bonfire Night we'd chuck him on the fire, eat baked potatoes (cooked in the fire), parkin and treacle toffee while watching our fireworks being set off by our dads. Happy days!

ginghamstarfish · 31/10/2018 12:26

I like the old Halloween/Samhain stories, and consider myself a pagan, but yes I do object to the mountains of plastic tat in the shops nowadays, and encouring kids to do 'trick or treat'. At least we did something (make a guy) to justify our begging!

museumum · 31/10/2018 12:30

If modern Halloween has nothing to do with America, then how come the pumpkin is such an ubiquitous part of it?

Because carving beeps is just too bloody hard! (Though they smell lovely with a real candle inside).

I try to keep true to my childhood guising traditions but pumpkins are a lot easier than beeps to hollow out.

AdamNichol · 31/10/2018 12:31

@NotDavidTennant - no one said America had nothing to do with it, just that it's not a solely derived US thing.

@Nottakingthisanymore - I hate tat too. Though it doubly annoys me that xmas tat now predates hallowe'en tat in stores. If it weren't for the Americanization / commercialization the festival would again be under huge threat of being forgotten in the face of christian competition

museumum · 31/10/2018 12:31

Also as a Scot who always went guising on 31st, I should also say we didn’t really do much for 5th November. We called it bonfire night rather than guy fawkes and we neber had an actual guy, just a fire and fireworks.

CoolCarrie · 31/10/2018 12:34

It’s definitely the over commercialism of Halloween that annoying, and that comes from the USA.

CoolCarrie · 31/10/2018 12:42

We had bobbing for Apples, treacle scones hung on strings from the ceiling and you had to eat them with your hands behind your back, and dressing up and that was in Scotland, but not the ott stuff now. Each to their own I suppose.

OhFlipMama · 31/10/2018 12:44

Reading this thread is so interesting.

In my area (East Anglia) the whole Guy Fawkes thing was always massive. Schools made guys (still do I believe) to burn on the big bonfires and stories about it were told. It was a really big deal!

Halloween was less 'popular'. It wouldn't have been touched on in our church school's but even locally only a handful of children trick or treated or dressed up. It just wasn't a huge thing.

AdamNichol · 31/10/2018 12:56

Funny how the holiday that is really about a new year / remembrance of ancestors, etc is now ghoullish and marketed as a celebration of evil things.....whereas the celebration of the torture and execution of a terrorist who was attempting to kill the government who were waging a campaign of religious geonocide is considered good ol' fun

JungDisciple · 31/10/2018 13:04

Im irish and old enough to remember "guising" so we had to have a joke or a poem or a tin whistle st the ready.

Sad the part where kids give / have an opportunity to earn the sweets has been dropped.

Shriekingbanshee · 31/10/2018 14:14

Guy Fawkes used to be huge, with penny for the guy everywhere, and guys thrown on bonfire, loads of fireworks. Halloween was apple bobbing, toffee apples, dressing up. Halloween got huge, but I am in an area where the pagan rituals still abound, and ppl come in their hoards to be part of it.

carpetrunner · 31/10/2018 14:41

@AdamNichol I know. I even had a lovely carved pumpkin. At least I got to eat the sweets. Perhaps the kids actually think I’m a witch...

BiddyPop · 31/10/2018 15:02

We used to carve sugar beet and go trick or treating in HM costumes (might have a shop bought mask), and play games like bobbing for apples in someones' house while sorting the loot.

Nowadays, DD carves a pumpkin (and we use the flesh like we use butternut squash a lot anyway so not really an extra expense), she goes trick or treating in a bought costume mostly (I work FT and don't have time to make them with her mostly - but she reuses lots of costumes and dressing up gear, and we also make some stuff between Halloween and World Book Day type events), and they play bobbing for apples and dance to music on their iPads in someones'house as they share out the loot.

headinhands · 31/10/2018 15:07

As far as I can see it's the shops pushing it that's the thing seen as Americanised. I went trick or treating in the south east of England in the 70's.

BiddyPop · 31/10/2018 15:21

Sorry, I meant to finish mine by saying that it's a little more commercialized for DD than for me, but not that much.

And we DID have to have our "trick" ready, to entertain some people at the doors. It was usually apples, monkey nuts or sometimes sweets that we got, almost never money. I still put out apples with the sweets, and lots of DCs take those.

TheGirlOnTheLanding · 31/10/2018 21:14

All the guisers at our door tonight had to earn their sweeties with a joke or a song - the only difference is they say 'Trick or Treat' and ' Happy Halloween' before and after (we didn't, i don't think, we just held our carrier bag out for the goodies), we carve pumpkins not neeps and have shop bought costumes instead of home made. No one I know has been egged or otherwise tricked, and the kids stop going guising when they leave primary school, so not intimidating at all. I like Halloween; the commercialisation hasn't taken away the traditional elements here.

Ilovecrumpets · 31/10/2018 21:44

Ooh @BiddyPop I’d completely forgotten about the monkey nuts at Halloween, but yes we used to get monkey nuts along with the fruit and needed a trick as well ( I wasn’t trying to explain that to my DCs tonight). That was north east England - it was definitely a thing there

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