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Interesting read if you think Halloween is an American import

82 replies

Anoisagusaris · 30/10/2018 21:56

Taken from a FB page, can’t claim credit as its author:

Samhain (Halloween) has its roots in the pagan traditions of the ancient Celts, who believed that the year was divided into a light half and a dark half. To the Celts, each day was seen as beginning at sunset and so the new year was also thought to begin with the arrival of the darkness, at Samhain.

Marking the end of the harvest and the beginning of winter, Samhain has been an important date since ancient times. It is mentioned in some of the earliest Irish literature and many important events in Irish mythology happen or begin at Samhain.

Although its date is now fixed on the 31st of October, Samhain would have originally been celebrated a few days later, on the astronomical Cross-quarter day, mid way between the Autumn equinox and the Winter solstice (around November 5th). The other cross-quarter days are Imbolc, Bealtaine, and Lughnasadh, all of which are ancient festival days.

In the mid-8th Century, Pope Gregory III moved the date of All Hallows Day (All Saints Day) from 13th May (the date of the Roman festival of the Dead) to 1st November, possibly to "Christianise" the festival of Samhain. The night before ‘All Hallows Day’ then became known as ‘All Hallows Eve’ which was shortened to ‘Halloween’.

Samhain was seen as a liminal time, when the veil between this world and the otherworld was lifted, allowing the Aos Sí (faeries or spirits) to pass through. In order to appease these spirits, people would leave food for them outside the house. Children would wear costumes and masks to disguise themselves, in order to confuse the Aos Sí and thus avoid being harmed or abducted.

The dead were also honoured at Samhain. The souls of those who had died since the previous Samhain were thought to revisit their homes, seeking hospitality before leaving for the otherworld. Places were set at the dinner table and by the fire to welcome them.

Bonfires are traditionally associated with Samhain, when all fires would be extinguished and re-lit from the Samhain bonfire. These fires were deemed to have protective and cleansing powers with various associated rituals.

Many of the traditional halloween games were attempts to divine the future of those gathered, especially with regard to death and marriage. A fruit cake called Barm Brack is traditionally served at Samhain, inside which symbolic items were hidden. A person's future was foretold by the item they happened to find in their slice; for example a ring meant marriage and a coin meant wealth.

Jack-o-lanterns (now made from pumpkins, which come from America), is another tradition that originated in Ireland, where the lanterns were made from turnips or swedes. A folktale about a blacksmith named Jack who outsmarts the devil and wandered the earth undead, gave the lanterns their name.

During the 1840’s the Great Potato Famine forced nearly one million people to emigrate from Ireland to the United States, taking their Samhain/Halloween traditions with them. The earliest references to Halloween appeared in America shortly afterwards and since then it has become one of the countries largest holidays.

Oíche Shamhna Shona Daoibh. . . !

Happy Samhain. . . !

OP posts:
Shriekingbanshee · 31/10/2018 03:46

Halloween Wink gotcha!

HirplesWithHaggis · 31/10/2018 03:59

Neep. Tumshie lanterns.

(Though I have been very grateful for the American-imported pumpkin habit, they are soooo much easier! Happy to adopt that one. Grin )

HirplesWithHaggis · 31/10/2018 04:11

I do wonder if Guy Fawkes "celebrations" (with pagan-type bonfires, fireworks) are/were an Establishment sectarian/political attempt to hijack Hallowe'en, after Xtianity didn't quite convince with Harvest Festivals.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

giantbanger · 31/10/2018 06:31

Just to come back to this, greenlanes

I really really miss the proper celebration of Guy Fawkes and believe the Hallmark commercialisation of Halloween - which is American - has destroyed part of this country's heritage. I sometimes think this discussion is part of the Mumsnet world vs real life. Before I joined mumnset years ago the only people I knew in RL who did anything for Halloween were Americans who lived in America!

My home city has one of the biggest Halloween celebrations in the world. the official celebrations started in the 1980's and grew from a small cross community celebration in a time of conflict. (understatement) www.independent.co.uk/travel/derry-best-halloween-destination-parade-salem-transylvania-new-york-a8598946.html

It feels very dismissive to call Halloween American and to ignore the other cultures within the UK where it is, and has been, celebrated for many years.

AndhowcouldIeverrefuse · 31/10/2018 06:45

Urge I have said it before on these threads -Bonfire night celebrates the torture and death of Guy Fawkes, a terrorist. It celebrates violence and religious division. Halloween is tame in comparison. I know which one I want to take forward with my kids!

StoorieHoose · 31/10/2018 06:51

“Before I joined mumnset years ago the only people I knew in RL who did anything for Halloween were Americans who lived in America!”

greenlanes do you not know any Irish or Scottish people? Or is it that you just didn’t have that conversation with them? Growing up we went out guiding at Halloween and Penny for the Guy for Bonfire night. Funny how trick or treating on here is seen as is begging but pushing an effigy around in a wheelbarrow asking for money isn’t - or let me guess you didn’t do that ‘in your country’?

Bowchicawowow · 31/10/2018 06:58

I grew up in the seventies and carved turnip Jack o’lanterns and did apple bobbing for Halloween.

LivLemler · 31/10/2018 07:05

Of course Halloween has become commercialised. Everything has. My parents were born in the 1950s in Ireland - I don't think Halloween has changed hugely more than Christmas in that sense compared to their childhood. Or do you grimace over the American import of a red Santa and outdoor Christmas lights etc?

StoorieHoose · 31/10/2018 07:19

That will be the next thread won’t it - the use of the word Santa instead of Father Christmas!

Hint: Santa is used in Scotland a d has been for decades and is not an American import

DuggeesWooOOooggle · 31/10/2018 07:53

Growing up we were never allowed to do anything Halloween related (Christian parents who see it as encouraging evil) so I have got a weird relationship with it. On the one hand I still have some of that unease about spirits etc (we were always taught that yes spirits exist but unless they were from God they were evil and not to be messed with, which always terrified me!) and I hate trick or treating (mainly because I hate random people calling at my house!). But I love ancient traditions and especially in modern society I think it's great to do things that link with our past. Reminds us we are not just screen orientated consumers. I would love to celebrate the changing seasons more, everyday life seems to get in the way but we are moving to the country soon so hoping to do more of that.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 31/10/2018 08:57

IMO it's only become such a big thing here since manufacturers/ retailers began to see it as an opportunity for making a load of money out of mountains of Halloween merchandise, aka mostly tat.

Until a few decades ago, Bonfire Night was always the big one, but the only merchandising opportunity with that is fireworks.

When I was a child, some people did have Halloween parties, with dressing up and apple bobbing, etc., but nobody I knew did trick or treat (this was S England, I know there was always guising in Scotland).

I'm not a misery about it, however - there will be a small pumpkin in the window tonight (will make Thai style soup out of that tomorrow!) and I've stocked up with treats.

TomPinch · 31/10/2018 09:14

I have a book by Iona Opie published in the 1970s. It says there is a Hallowe'en / Guy Fawkes line running through Great Britain, more or less from the Humber to the Hampshire / Dorset boundary. North and west is traditionally Hallowe'en, south and east Guy Fawkes. I suspect cities were an exception though because I remember celebrating Hallowe'en in mid-80s London.

Interestingly, only Guy Fawkes got exported to the colonies, north America aside. Hallowe'en is a very recent import from America in Aus, NZ and SA, and has no real connection with the traditions in Scotland, Wales, Ireland and north and west England.

I think it's a bit silly though to say it's 'not an import' because the Celts did it. That was a very, very long time ago, and we have very little knowledge of what the Celts believed anyway. Certainly it wouldn't have involved chocolate and sexy witches. Anyway, the Celts themselves would have imported it because they were not indigenous to Britain.

Bonfire Night is celebrated on 5 Nov because that's the anniversary of the Gunpowder Plot: therefore nothing to do with pagan beliefs, notwithstanding the recent fashion for that view.

giantbanger · 31/10/2018 09:16

The celts in Scotland and Ireland always did it. My granny was born in 1900 and she did it as a child. Bobbing for apples and soda farls strung up.

TomPinch · 31/10/2018 09:23

Urge I have said it before on these threads -Bonfire night celebrates the torture and death of Guy Fawkes, a terrorist. It celebrates violence and religious division.

No- it celebrates the foiling of an attempted coup d'etat, overthrow of the rule of law, and imposition of alien values.

Imagine if 9/11 had been foiled. Celebrating it be no different to celebrating Bonfire Night. The fact that Guy Fawkes was tortured into making a confession doesn't negate this, and the goings on at Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib suggest we're not as more enlightened than our ancestors as we like to think.

There's nothing improper about the origins of Bonfire Night.

Anoisagusaris · 31/10/2018 09:23

In the 80’s in Ireland we dressed up, simpler costumes than today involving black bin bags and bought cardboard witches hats or plastic masks, or sprayed colored hair for a punk or school uniform askew and wild hair for a St Trinian’s girl. We went ‘collecting’ instead of Trick or Treating, said ‘help the Halloween party’ and got mostly nuts and fruit with the odd sweet. We played Halloween games and there would be a bonfire in the local park.

OP posts:
giantbanger · 31/10/2018 09:31

We used to try to get out early and with my wee brother in tow so that we got sweets and coins, not nuts

TomPinch · 31/10/2018 09:35

I do wonder if Guy Fawkes "celebrations" (with pagan-type bonfires, fireworks) are/were an Establishment sectarian/political attempt to hijack Hallowe'en, after Xtianity didn't quite convince with Harvest Festivals.

No - Bonfire Night is the anniversary of the foiling of the plot.

By 1605 Christianity had been the dominant belief system in England for almost exactly 1,000 years. There were no pagans left, and no pagan practices other than some folk traditions.

I'll add that the Celtic bits of Britain were Christian even earlier: the Anglo-Saxons were Odinists and their invasions in the 5th and 6th centuries briefly displaced Christianity in what's now England.

GlassOuijan · 31/10/2018 09:36

Oh FGS there's nothing American about Halloween. Nor can we "blame" US for the increasing commercialisation of it, even if they seemingly did it first. It was simply recognised as an opportunity for commercial exploitation. Valentine's Day, Mothers Day and even Christmas are much bigger now than they were when I was a child.
We always "did" Halloween and Guy Fawkes when I was a child in 1970's Scotland; it was just a bit more cheap and cheerful (and much more fun!) than it is now.

carpetrunner · 31/10/2018 09:37

I don’t think most people think the ancient traditions of Halloween didn’t exist here, I think people don’t want to see the trick or treating becoming a mass thing in the uk. It isn’t in my area, I live walking distance to a school and last year had no one knock on my door despite me buying sweets just in case.

A lot of vulnerable people in the uk are intimidated by the thought of it being acceptable for anyone to knock on your door all evening when it’s dark. It’s easier just to keep these things to organised groups (such as my neighbours are running between sets of families) and not be pulled in by the commercial in your face availability of crappy plastic masks etc going around, the extra resource police have to make available to this one evening as a result etc.

AdamNichol · 31/10/2018 09:38

Jack O'Lantern is a much mangled story, with several redrafts that now mean extracting the original is near impossible.

The fragments that remain are the concept of Will O'theWisp - an explanation for mysterious lights in marshy land (now explained as phospoluminesance). People lost in marsh lands at night would sometimes seek out the lights assuming it was distant civilization, only to drown as a result of leaving the safe pathways. Will O'theWisp was a personification of an evil sprite that deliberately lured the unwary to their death this way; and his story has a few variants (a Wisp is a bundled torch).

Later, the story of Jack O'Lantern cropped up with a new protagonist whose misdeeds prevent him access to heaven, yet various deceptions against satan see him banned from hell. Jack is given or steals a single coal from hell with which to light his way in a lantern. He is doomed to either wander aimlessly eternally, or has to lure a set number of people to their death to gain access to hell (depending on the variant).

The Jack O'Lantern pumpkin/turnip is a mash of the Jack O'Lantern name with the Celtic belief that the spirits of dead relatives (especially dead children) returned to visit the home on Samhain. Treats were left for them and a lantern (often protected from the wind/rain by being inside a carved root vegetable) were left out to guide them.
As christianity imposed its own festivals over the top of existing belief, the visits by dead relatives became visits by evil sprites who had to be appeased with treats or would curse you - leading to trick or treat.

GlassOuijan · 31/10/2018 09:39

And as a PP says, Santa Claus isn't blooming American either!

Oldraver · 31/10/2018 09:40

I grew up in a city in central England and Halloween never ever figured, and although I know the origins of it, it was never celebrated. So yes the celebration of Halloweem does appear to some as an import. Though to be honest I dont really care

AdamNichol · 31/10/2018 09:40

@carpetrunner

There is an informal rule for Hallowe'en that says only houses with lit pumpkins outside are participating in trick or treat. Might be why no one knocks.

Oldraver · 31/10/2018 09:41

As in ...I dont care about the argument it's an imported event.

Some do, some dont. Just d what you feel

LoisWilkerson1 · 31/10/2018 09:42

Halloween has always been celebrated in Scotland as is said on here year in, year out. Why is it that some people can't accept that other countries are not like England without hand wringing or blatant ignorant remarks. Yy to the anti American nonsense too.