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Now Girl Guides are expelling Guide Leaders and closing down their units for raising safeguardiing concerns

80 replies

ManicSunday · 23/09/2018 13:59

A number of Guide Leaders raised safeguarding concerns about a Girl Guides policy which:

a) allowed adults males who self-identified as being women (without a Gender Recognition Certificate, medical diagnosis or any treatment) to become 'female' Guide Leaders
b) to require units to allow teenage boys who self-identified as girls to not only join the units and attend residential trips but to share tents and communal showers with the girls
c) that parents must not be informed that this was going on

It has now been confirmed that two of the Guide Leaders who raised safeguarding concerns have been expelled from the organisation and their units closed down and that at least five more are currently being subject to disciplinary investigation over this.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/girl-guide-leaders-expelled-for-questioning-trans-policy-550x7m55r?shareToken=65c8d021613171819f6979c0ab3d8902

This is bonkers, isn't it? When we have got to the stage where you can't even discuss safeguarding issues, something has gone badly wrong.

OP posts:
DN4GeekinDerby · 23/09/2018 19:52

I am deliberately being a bit provocative because that doesn't seem to happen often from this standpoint.

The equating of males and the risks of violent crimes by males to lesbians happens all the time. It's not new or uncommon. It comes up on threads about these issues almost every single time. It's literally centuries old homophobic rhetoric. Much of the writing on putting lesbians into asylums and torturing them included describing them as threatening violent men to other women. It is never okay or not homophobic to equate lesbians to penises or men or act like lesbians (or bisexual women) perpetuate male violence. Making it about sexual attraction also entirely ignores that gay men can and do sexually assault girls and women and one of the main things people say to dismiss that is 'but I'm/they're not attracted to...' as if that makes it less harmful. Even those of us who have been violently sexually assaulted by women can recognize that the statistics and risks are greater and that the risks are quite different in a mixed sex situation compared to a single sex one.

Having kids who aren't straight doesn't mean you can't say homophobic things. That makes absolutely no sense. Most gay and bisexual and even the asexual people I know have had our parents say and do horribly homophobic things. My very much flaunts her gay best friends and how cool she is mother did it just as much as my conservative evangelical father. Seriously, it's like saying having a kid with a disability means you can't be ableist and entirely ignoring disabled kids are significantly more likely to be abused and killed - almost entirely by parents. My kid is X is like my best friend is X - it's not a character reference, it means nothing other than someone is choosing to use someone else as a shield to deflect criticism.

Mixed sex groups for kids have handled safeguarding for years now. Even with trans and dysphoric kids, they've managed to have safeguarding that took into account to minimize the increased risks of mixed sex environments. I was a dysphoric teen often in an otherwise all male environment and, shocker, no one ever thought I should decide if I should bunk with the guys or go in the boys locker room to change or while others were changing or unsupervised at all with a large groups of teen boys. The adults decided what was safest - because a kid being trans or having dysphoria is no excuse to act like the kid knows everything about what is best for them. If my tiny redneck community school can do safeguarding and accommodations with little warning when I transferred midyear, I think an organization like GG UK can figure out something better for its volunteer guidelines than the laziest option of 'whatever the kid wishes is most important'.

The girls deserve better than their well-being ignored and the trans kids deserve better than having adults put their well-being all on their shoulders rather than treating them like any other kid and making an adult choice on what is safest for everyone and these expelled Guide Leaders deserve far far better than to be chucked out for wanting to keep girls safe and not toeing this lazy line that doesn't actually support anyone, it lets a few adults pat themselves on the back about how open-minded they are.

IceRebel · 23/09/2018 20:42

The adults decided what was safest - because a kid being trans or having dysphoria is no excuse to act like the kid knows everything about what is best for them.

Oh I wish I could like your comment, especially the above. It's such a sensible and thought provoking post.

PerfectPenquins · 25/09/2018 18:26

Just ahd this in an email im assuming all who have daughters in the groups will have one, ive copied and pasted so sorry if the paragraphs havent come across.
A message to all our members, parents and carers
Our response to the media attention to our Equality and Diversity policy
In the last few days you may have seen that Girlguiding’s Equality and Diversity policy has been criticised in the media, with accusations that our inclusion of trans members puts girls at risk. It does not.

The safety, wellbeing and happiness of our members is at the heart of everything we do in Girlguiding and has been for over 100 years.

We are therefore writing to all our members and parents of our young members to set the record straight. Keeping girls, young women and our adult volunteers safe is our number one priority. We’re really proud of our robust safeguarding procedures which apply to everyone and underpin everything volunteers and girls do in guiding. We are deeply saddened that anyone would suggest that we would knowingly put our young members at risk.

As an organisation we pride ourselves on caring for every individual. Simply being transgender does not make someone more of a safeguarding risk than any other person.

Every individual and group is different, so we train and support our volunteers to assess every situation - balancing the needs of all our members, both girls and adults, so everyone can enjoy their guiding experience in a way they feel comfortable with. Our universal policies ensure that all volunteers are required to safeguard and assess risk for all activities on a case by case basis to comply with those policies and procedures.

We’ve been responding directly to practical questions from volunteers and parents about how we can balance the needs of all our members, and we are always happy to offer bespoke support to any leader or parent, including on transgender inclusion.

It is important to us that we listen to girls and young women, 86% of whom have told us, through the Girls’ Attitudes Survey, that they do not think people should be discriminated against because they are transgender.

Girlguiding’s policies, procedures and Volunteer Code of Conduct ensure that all our volunteers understand their roles and responsibilities to treat others with respect, keep everyone safe, and deliver great experiences for girls and young women.

We therefore take breaches of our policies, procedures and Volunteer Code of Conduct very seriously.

Following a number of complaints about two individuals, an independent investigation concluded that both had breached our Volunteer Code of Conduct and our Social Media policy because they did not, and indicated that they were not willing to, follow Girlguiding’s Equality and Diversity policy and actively encouraged others to do the same. We are always willing to listen to feedback about our policies, and remain open to reviewing them wherever necessary.

We will always investigate any breaches of our Volunteer Code of Conduct and related policies. While withdrawal of membership is a last resort for us, our policies are designed to protect our girls and young women. Refusing to comply with our policies is unacceptable. Unfortunately, the circumstances meant that we had no choice but to withdraw these individuals’ membership. This decision was not based on their personal views, but on the way they conducted themselves.

We have been asked to provide further details on these specific disciplinary cases but it would be inappropriate to comment further as the individuals in question have a right to appeal.

We’ve tried to avoid being drawn into the highly politicised, emotive and often aggressive debate around transgender inclusion. Girlguiding is not a transgender campaign group, we are a young people’s organisation. Our focus has been, and will remain, providing our young members with opportunities to learn, grow and discover in a fun, safe, inclusive and legally compliant way.

We have developed our policy in line with legal advice and, in the case of our guidance around transgender members, organisations with experience of supporting transgender children and young people. Contrary to claims made on social media we do not make policy based on comments from individuals or pressure groups.

We know that this is a new and complex area of law and we will continue to review our policies against the latest advice and guidance. Under the General Data Protection Regulation 2018 the sharing of personal data of children is afforded greater protection, so we take great care to uphold confidentiality. Any information about an individual’s transgender history is treated in line with the Data Protection Act 2018/General Data Protection Regulation 2018 (GDPR) and Girlguiding’s Data Protection policy.

It hasn’t been easy to hear criticism of our organisation and of the wider Girlguiding family especially when much of it is inaccurate, aggressive and counter to the values we hold dear.

We are incredibly proud of our volunteers and the young people in our movement who sensitively and positively support diversity of all kinds, including our transgender members, as part of their groups. We would like to thank each and every one of our 109,000 volunteers who, week in and week out, offer a safe space for girls and young women to have fun, learn new skills, explore their own identity and beliefs, and to be proud of who they are.

Amidst all the noise we try to remain focused on the children and young people that we support. We call ourselves a movement because we change with the times, whilst staying focused on our core values and purpose, and we will continue to do just that.

Amanda Medler
Chief Guide

Ruth Marvel

Acting Chief Executive

ManicSunday · 25/09/2018 23:05

It is important to us that we listen to girls and young women, 86% of whom have told us, through the Girls’ Attitudes Survey, that they do not think people should be discriminated against because they are transgender.

I don't think people should be discriminated against because they are transgender - which is why I am glad that they seem to have reversed their previous policy to remove female children who identified as trans from their organisation on the grounds that they were trans.

"Do you think teenage girls should share communal showers and tents with a teenage penis-owner?" is a different question.

OP posts:
ManicSunday · 25/09/2018 23:21

There was an item on this on Good Morning Britain today:

OP posts:
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