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Original poster

CBB 'punch' incident. Views?

784 replies

YeOldeFishWife · 01/09/2018 11:09

Not sure about this as it is highly irritating to have someone jumping around you pretend to 'box' and he could have poked her by accident. She was in a car accident recently and could be tender there. Some could say she had a right to complain even though he was obviously not deliberately trying to hurt her.

The asking for him to be removed from the house (if she did that) and claims that he'd 'beaten her up' were a complete overreaction of though.

OP posts:
rainbowsandsmiles · 04/09/2018 02:23

Point out to me when I said it wasn't real?

Yeah,already have on a couple of occasions, but you're blatantly not seeing either through not understanding or not wanting to listen.

GunpowderGelatine · 04/09/2018 02:27

Yeah,already have on a couple of occasions

No, you haven't. You copied and pasted quotes from me saying (correctly) that it's not a criminal matter, it's a civil matter. On what planet does that equate to me saying defamation "isn't real"?? You actually think that's the same thing?

Are we happy now that defamation and slander and libel are not crimes but civil matters?

If you want to fight for the few men who've had their lives ruined by accusations, you go ahead. I have different fish to fry.

BananaToffo · 04/09/2018 02:29

Gunpowder never said it wasn't real, s/he said it wasn't a criminal/police matter - which it isn't.

You are not seriously suggesting you studied law, are you, Rainbows?

To what level? Key Stage 2?

rainbowsandsmiles · 04/09/2018 02:32

I said it's linguistic semantics whether it's civil or not, the fact of the matter is you can be prosecuted for libel or slander. Regardless of what gunpowder or Toffo says.

BabyCobra · 04/09/2018 02:32

I am sorry but what difference does it make whether it is a civil or a criminal offence or whether someone would get damages for it. I say that as a lawyer. Recourse to the law is typically a wholly inadequate solution to a situation like this. It is not a breach of contract that can be solved with reimbursing financial losses.

The law or the courts cannot repair a persons mind. They cannot magic away the intense psychological damage that is caused by an untrue allegation. It cannot repair relationships.

rainbowsandsmiles · 04/09/2018 02:33

I have different fish to fry.

Which is? You certainly come across as you've got an agenda on here with your constant minimising and dismissing.

rainbowsandsmiles · 04/09/2018 02:34

Well said, babycobra.

rainbowsandsmiles · 04/09/2018 02:36

Edit to add - gunpowder will no doubt disagree with you though as she doesn't believe that false accusations affect anyone, so probably won't agree that there's any psychological damage in the first place.

GunpowderGelatine · 04/09/2018 02:38

I said it's linguistic semantics whether it's civil or not
,
Quotes from you-

deliberately setting out to defame someone's character is a crime. That's slander as you say.

Defamation of character absolutely is a police matter, slander definitely is

You absolutely can be charged with defamation, whether it be slander or libel

the fact of the matter is you can be prosecuted for libel or slander.

No, you can't. You can be sued for libel or slander. Criminal proceedings (prosecution) cannot be brought

I'd stop now if I were you, you're just coming across as a fibber TBH. Studied Law? Pfft

rainbowsandsmiles · 04/09/2018 02:42

Whatever, gunpowder. Don't care if that's an immature response, but seriously, there's no reasoning with you. As someone upthread said to you, it's like banging your head against a brick wall even trying to engage.

GunpowderGelatine · 04/09/2018 02:43

BabyCobra the differnce is rainbows insistence that defamation is a criminal matter as opposed to a civil matter. As a lawyer I'm sure you can set her straight.

rainbows as I've said many times I prefer to concentrate my efforts on victims of rape, sexual assault and DV rather than those falsely accused. I co-run a support group for survivors of abuse, and aside from being victims many (most) have to deal with the added grief of people believing they're liars and have falsely accused their perpetrators. They're usually told they've ruined their abusers life. So excuse me while I nail that flag to the post (not sorry).

GunpowderGelatine · 04/09/2018 02:44

But what are you trying to engage on rainbows? I've answered your questions, pointed out your error yet you seem to refuse to accept you were wrong? Ok then. As you say, whatever

rainbowsandsmiles · 04/09/2018 02:47

You say can be sued, which is an advancement on what you were saying earlier that it wasn't something you could be got for. You're just trying to quibble with words and semantics like I said. Biscuit

GunpowderGelatine · 04/09/2018 02:50

You say can be sued, which is an advancement on what you were saying earlier that it wasn't something you could be got for

Oh dear.
I said it was a civil matter, not a criminal matter. That's what getting sued is. That's the very definition of civil matter. I never said someone couldn't be 'got for' it 😂 studied Law my foot

rainbowsandsmiles · 04/09/2018 02:52

So because females have been abused, which I'm not disputing is awful, that's fine for you to flat out believe that men can be victims too like in this case? It's not always about physical. You might think that mental abuse is nothing ( you certainly come across as that way) but it is a thing. Women can be abusers too. Just because the majority of abusers are men like you keep going on about, doesn't make it any less real when it actually does happen.

GunpowderGelatine · 04/09/2018 02:57

that's fine for you to flat out believe that men can be victims too like in this case?

Didn't say that

You might think that mental abuse is nothing ( you certainly come across as that way)

Didn't say that either. I know all to well about mental abuse thank you. Me saying I don't think he'll be adversely affected is not denying mental abuse.

Women can be abusers too.

Yes. But it's rare. The rarity is relevant

Let's be clear RT is not a victim of violence, he's a victim of a lie.

I think you need to do a bit of research BTW before you tell lies about what you studied at Uni. Like the difference between civil and criminal law would be a good start

BananaToffo · 04/09/2018 02:58

"Semantics"? No.

Semantics is when you quibble over what a word actually means - or use the wrong word when your meaning is nevertheless clear.

You, Rainbow, have consistently made erroneous statements. Being wrong isn't "semantics".

Slander/libel isn't a criminal offence, will not be investigated by the police & the CPS won't prosecute.

Lying TO THE police may be a crime. Is that where you're confused?

rainbowsandsmiles · 04/09/2018 02:59

To the first two highlighted bits. Gunpowder - Read. Back. Your. Posts. Slowly. Yes you HAVE.

GunpowderGelatine · 04/09/2018 03:02

I have what sorry? Which highlighted bits, the ones on my last post?

BabyCobra · 04/09/2018 03:13

I co-run a support group for survivors of abuse, and aside from being victims many (most) have to deal with the added grief of people believing they're liars and have falsely accused their perpetrators. They're usually told they've ruined their abusers life. So excuse me while I nail that flag to the post (not sorry).

This is very noble but why does it have to be one or the other. Why do you have to pitch victims of domestic abuse against victims of false accusation. Both of worthy of empathy and support.

Unless they have money, defendants in criminal proceedings are typically treated appallingly during the judicial process, with very little hope of defending themselves adequately. The Secret Barrister is a very good read in this regard.

Victims of crime deserve support. But so do people who are wrongly accused of crimes they did not commit. Even when found innocent - they are expected to just suck it up and get on with life. No thought is given for the horrendous impact upon their minds, their careers, their reputations, their families. They cannot recover any of the thousands and thousands spent on defending themselves.

GunpowderGelatine · 04/09/2018 03:19

Because Baby for me, aside from the fact that victims of false accusations are so rare, my experience and life resonate more with female victims of violence.

Victims of crime deserve support. But so do people who are wrongly accused of crimes they did not commit

So, come trial time, how do we spot the innocent from the guilty?

Even when found innocent

If you are a lawyer you will know no one is ever found innocent. They are found not guilty on the absence of reasonable doubt. You have no certainty if someone found not guilty is innocent or not.

If anyone wants to set up support groups for the 20 or so men a year falsely accused of crimes go ahead. It's not a battle I'll be fighting for

GunpowderGelatine · 04/09/2018 03:27

Sorry I meant they are found not guilty on the merit of reasonable doubt. Forgive me, it is 3.30 in the morning Grin

BananaToffo · 04/09/2018 03:29

*20 or so men a year.....
*
Where has that number come from? It'a ridiculous. How on earth can you know that?

The truth of the situation is that it's impossible to know sometimes whether someone is guilty/innocent as a fact or not....often the only witnesses are the defendant and the (possible) victim.

That's why we rely on evidence. If the evidence isn't there, they'll be acquitted, quite rightly. But they need to hope that the court if public opinion accepts the verdict, which very often it doesn't.

We KNOW innocent people are sometimes accused. Why deny that or minimise to "20 a year"? The CPS look carefully at the evidence and if it's not there they decline to prosecute - and it is impossible to know how many of those people accused actually did anything wrong. So wherever your statistic came from, it's bullshit.

BabyCobra · 04/09/2018 03:37

Would you dismiss 20 rapes a year as being not important?

How is losing your liberty, your reputation, probably your mental health and most of your relationships so easily dismissed. If your son was in prison on a miscarriage of justice, would you say 'Son you need to suck this up - its a shame but my sympathies lie with others'

Please read the Secret Barrister. Your figures are wrong.

Your rationale astounds me and in all honesty diminishes the value of the support you do provide to those in need because in your book, only certain lives and only certain types of suffering matter.

GunpowderGelatine · 04/09/2018 04:28

Banana from the CPS, who found 35 over a18 month period so I think it's fair to say 20 a year https://www.cps.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/legal_guidance/perverting-course-of-justice-march-2013.pdf

The truth of the situation is that it's impossible to know sometimes whether someone is guilty/innocent as a fact or not....often the only witnesses are the defendant and the (possible) victim

Well quite so we have to sometimes rely on what we do know. If we are going on the premise of innocent until proven guilty, we can only same 'falsely accused' cases are ones in which there has been a conviction by the accuser.

*Would you dismiss 20 rapes a year as being not important?