Would you let your 14yo come?

[ShadyGable]

Day at the seaside planned tomorrow.

9yo DS with ASD and 14yo DD. Yesterday DD and some friends were upstairs playing, next thing I know bathroom door is slammed and children come down saying DS has locked himself in and is crying. This turns into 3 hours of sobbing, self harm, crying he’s not meant to be in this world and we’d be better off without him. It was heartbreaking.

This was all started by DD who called him a baby, told all the friends that he cries and gets angry all the time, started playing pranks on him and scaring him (locking him in his room in the dark - he’s petrified of the dark). This is all I can get out of DS, he’s still not talking today.

DD is refusing to take any responsibility, there’s history of her being pretty awful to her brother and not understanding him at all. She definitely makes a hard life more difficult.

I was so angry last night I sent her to bed as all she did was try and start a fight with me and do the usual ‘I did nooooootttttthhhiiinnnggg’ teenage whine.

I’m tempted to ban her from coming tomorrow, DS will be so much happier without her there. She won’t be missing out as she’s already had a few beach days and a holiday abroad this year whilst this will be DS’s first outing of the year.

You seem very sure on exactly what happened, why it happened and whose fault it was considering hes not talking and only briefly told you his side of the story yesterday whilst he was still upset and she has denied everything.
If you honestly think it was completely her fault, he did nothing wrong and she needs punishing then you can punish her without starngers online agreeing that is the best thing to do, if they were my children I wouldnt be able to believe that they were both playing nicely with their friends and getting along well one minute and then the 14 year old on her own without any reason or encouragement from friends decidided to be that cruel to him.

I discipline the same as in I remove electronics and I send him for time out on the stairs for the same things I would with the other DC. I can’t let DS kick one of them and me not do anything about it. I need to show my other DC that it’s not acceptable to be violent.

My house would be a zoo if I let one DC get away with something that I let DS do just because he has ASD. That’s excusing it. I don’t punish DS for things like tearing up tissues and paper everywhere, flooding the bathroom by using said tissues in the sink, or smearing my makeup with his toothbrush. That’s sensory, instead I guide him to his sensory box. My other DC don’t do that and never have, so it’s never been an issue in terms of not punishing him.

I agree she needs to hear that bullying is totally unacceptable and DS probably deserves some nice time tomorrow without her.

Although bigger picture- you need to get to the bottom of why she did it with her. (I think I’d pick a quiet moment when you’ve got time and tell her to cut the ‘pranking’ Crap because it’s just making you think less of her and ask what was really going on).
From what you’ve said it sounds as though this is out of character (which is great!) but since you don’t want a repeat she needs to know a) how serious it was b) what drove her to do it so she can ensure it doesn’t happen again.

You've said yourself that it was unusual, that usually never even bicker. I wouldn't come down so hard and certainly not with a punishment that meant excluding her from a family trip. I think that the squeaky wheel gets the most attention is very true and certainly has been in my family with my autistic child. I also have known myself to overreact to my oldest when he loses patience with my youngest and i examine that and think it's because I perceive her to be more vulnerable due to her autism. There are other punishments which would be equally effective and yes there should be one because it was a nasty thing to do but I wouldn't exclude a child of mine from a family day out because we are a team and I don't think excluding from that after non team like behaviour is the answer. But as I said it's your decision. I'm a single parent too fwiw.

You may not realise but you do sound very one sided on this, very adamant that it's the right thing to do. You are insisting that what happened warrants this punishment and providing supporting arguments for why it should to anyone that offers other opinions. You don't sound particularly balanced considering this is supposedly unusual behaviour and I do wonder why you posted as you seem very sure that this is the right choice.

OP, you sound like a wonderful mum. You have arranged activities through the summer, you have one on one time with each of your DC, and you do all this as a single parent. You also have clear boundaries and sanctions in place.

You are absolutely right to leave her at home. There is no excuse for this kind of behaviour. You already show her understanding for her growing up in a house with a sibling with ASD but she has pushed things too far. What she did was cruel and she seems to know that too. She is 14! Young people will not learn if all we ever to is talk to them. We need to talk to them and sanction. Then they learn.

So leave her with your mum, without her phone and enjoy your day out! Your DS deserves a treat!

Shady can I just say you sound like an amazing mum. I have 2 boys with ASD so I can understand you completely

I think your DD should be punished for unacceptable bullying and I think she will learn a very valuable lesson.

Last night during the 3 hour meltdown I got a very good idea of what went on. He wrote it down as well, as he often does when stuff like this happens. The other children who were there also told me the same stories of what happened.

They were playing nicely, watching gymnastics videos on YouTube, then they started talking about pranking each other and DD thought it would be funny to us DS as the guinea pig and mocked him when he got upset with the being locked in the dark. Laughed at him and called him a baby.

I’m very aware this is a public forum so am deliberately trying to be a bit vague whilst trying not to miss any vital parts out of the story.

I’m not saying she didn’t have any encouragement, maybe she did. They are kids at the end of the day. But if she did then she should be the one to stand up and say no, he doesn’t like it and protect him from this kind of shit instead of encourage it and deliberately upset him.

Having read your other posts, I'm sith you OP. She needs to miss the trip for such malicious behaviour.

Pranking is only funny if everyone is laughing. That was just bullying and frankly was a disgusting way for a 14 year old to behave.

I'd leave her behind too. This isn't a normal transgression for which you take their phone . This was spiteful and nasty and requires a harsher punishment in my book.

Carol when I said they don’t usually bicker, I meant all the neighbours when they are playing. The dynamics are really good and equal. My DD and DS don’t get on at all and have to usual sibling bullshit. But this is another level. Please also refer to my post where I say “I know this seems very one sided” as I’m aware what is sounds like. But that isn’t the case. I have a great relationship with DD and she’s very open with me. I’m normally very balanced and was unsure when I first posted what to do for the best. But as I posted this nearly 2 hours ago I’ve become sure in that time of how I should deal with it.

Thank you stepmumma and Regingaphalange. You have no idea how much that means to me. I feel like my parenting has been completely under fire.

I think you’vE made the right call, OP

Unfortunately there is a strong belief that asd kids should not be disciplined. Which is absolute rubbish. In fact I think half of mumsnet think kids shouldn't be disciplined full stop.
Stick with your gut.

Shady, I would punish her actually. I don't care WHY she treated a person, any person, in such a shameful way, I would care that she did do that.

Her behaviour was low and shameful and she SHOULD be ashamed.

Thank you Scout and didyou. You’re right when you say pranking is only funny if everyone is laughing.

I don’t know why I should but I feel the need to reiterate I have a very good relationship with DD, she’s a normal hormonal teenager but she doesn’t give me huge amounts of grief normally. She does display spiteful and manipulative behaviour towards her DS quite frequently but we sit down and talk about and discuss the way forward. I have a lot of one on one time with her, I make sure she’s always happy and try to show her DS doesn’t get any favourable attention from me.

I’m not bloody perfect. I was 16 when I had her and it’s been a massive learning curve. But what I won’t accept is bullying of any kind. I asked for advice as I wasn’t sure, but the more I typed and the more I read the more certain I became that she should be punished for what she did. I am now suffering major mum guilt and want to go and hug her, which I will do later but I’m not backing down on my decision. She hasn’t missed out, she’s already been to this seaside once these holidays with her friends and been abroad whereas the other two haven’t.

Thank you all for your input and advice, I’m leaving the thread now as I don’t think I’ll gain much else from it other than my parenting being shot down! It’s not easy being a single parent, with no respite or support to a child with SN. And I’m only human!

Have you got your dd's side of what happened yet? I think you need to talk about whats shes done and why your punishing her so she understands before you actually do it as well as making sure you know the full story

Thank you Aridane, Doctor and colditz

I would be banning her from going without a doubt!

We have 5DC and 2 of our DC are autistic and we have never experienced what your poor DS went through,honestly if anything our 3DC that aren't autistic are amazing with they're brother and sister that are autistic,they're all very protective of each other,even our youngest DC DD10 who is autistic is very protective of her 3 big brothers and big sister which is so cute.

She knows what she did is wrong and for what it's worth ShadyGableyou sound like an amazing Mum,your doing it all on your own and your DC all get time on they're own with you and your oldest DD got a holiday alone with you,there are tons and tons of families that can't manage that without doing it all on they're own and with a DC with extra needs so please don't let some of the comments on here make you give yourself a hard time because you honestly don't deserve it!

I've just asked my DS16 who is autistic what he thought and he said if it was him he'd not want the sister to go on the day trip today,he said even if his Mum was there he would not feel safe with his sister being there so soon after the bullying he experienced.

He also said you sound like your amazing,from the mouths of babes as they say

I would have done exactly as you have OP. She is old enough to know better. As tough as it is to have a sibling with ASD, if anything that should have made her more aware of her actions as she knew what the end result would be. My DD is 5 and NT, DS is 10 and has ASD. His little sister is already very aware of his triggers and does all she can to make sure she doesn't cause him distress. If a 5 year old can do that then I expect a 14 year old can too. Yes, this may have been a one off. She may have just taken it too far, with a little encouragement from the other kids, but the consequences for your DS were severe so I believe they should be for her as well.

Hopefully she will never do anything like that again.

I'd be interested to hear what other people would do if this exact scenario had happened but instead of it being siblings it was just friends? Or had happened at school? Would it still be OK? Just because they are siblings does not make bullying OK.

You sound like you're doing a great job op in tough circumstances. Teenagers are hard work anyway but I say carry on the way you are and things will get better.

Thank you ohtheholidays. A lovely post and you’ve made me smile.

It’s great living with someone who has 3 house long melt downs and self harms... doesn’t affect you at all! It’s lovely!
I know because I was older sibling of an asd brother. She did something unkind. You’re being very very unkind.

I'm not sure it came across but just wanted to reiterate that I think you're doing the right thing.

It’s great living with someone who has 3 house long melt downs and self harms... doesn’t affect you at all! It’s lovely!

She caused the meltdown!

@30hours it's even shittier being the person having the meltdowns through no fault of your own, and by the sounds of it the dd was instrumental in causing this particular one

Hi there. I've got a severely autistic son and he has a brother who is 3 years older. The difference between our families is that DS with ASD is really low functioning, non verbal and would never be out of our sight as he eats things he shouldn't, smears and first see danger.

His older brother has never once bullied him, despite the restrictions he puts in our family, we can't go anywhere with him. We've had bad behaviours from our eldest as a teen, he is no saint, but not directed at his brother.

I'm not sure if this is helpful or not.

It's a tricky one, she needs to be kind and understanding towards him, but she also has to live in a house with special needs, which isn't easy and family time should be promoted in the positive.

I think the punishment I'd fish out would be towards her not being allowed to have these "friends" upstairs again, for a realistic period of time. You cannot have your son in that situation again.

Good luck op.

i wouldnt ban her. I would choose another puishment. I think youll prolong it if you ban her. I would try and talk to her about it