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This is very, very long, and yes, I've NC'd.

216 replies

Helpmehelpmydgs · 24/08/2013 14:44

My DS1 and his gf lived together for a few years, half here and half with her family, before finally moving into their own place a couple of years ago. They got together as teenagers and are now mid-twenties.

I will admit I was massively relieved when they moved out, the atmosphere in my home lightened immediately. They were always rather "disapproving" towards dh and me, there was a fair amount of "antler-clashing" (words, no violence) between DS1 and dh, and ds1 and ds2, and it was all just getting a bit tired. While they were here, they contributed nothing; no housework, no bills, no rent. They didn't even provide company and entertainment, they just took their evening meals upstairs to eat and wouldn't be seen again till morning.

Anyway, they have basically cut communications since they left. Ds1 passes close to our home twice every working day and has never called in just for a natter and a cup of tea. He has never phoned just for a chat, and eventually stopped even responding to his dad's friendly sports-related texts. He didn't even acknowledge FB messages. (I know, I know...) Eventually I blocked him on FB because it became obvious that his dp was using the login to post snidey, passive-aggressive comments aimed at me, and I don't need that kind of childish shit in my life.

So, roll on the months, and ds1 drops by to tell us they're having a baby. We say "Congratulations, when's it due?", he tells us and leaves. Five minutes tops, and the next we hear is when the baby is born premature, by emergency CS, and later needs surgery at a few weeks old. We were "permitted" to visit in the hospital, dh and ds2 went, I didn't because I had a streaming cold and didn't think a tiny newborn should be exposed to that. Eventually I met him at about three months when they dropped by for five minutes; he was taken out of the car, but not the carseat (fair enough, he was asleep) so I could admire from a distance. I was never invited to visit him in their home, and I have never been the kind of person to drop in uninvited; particularly where dil2b is so clearly hostile towards me I wouldn't even consider it. I know how hard the early days are and would never just "drop by" on a new mum, especially one who'd just had major abdominal surgery, I don't even phone in case I'd disturb a nap.

I don't think I've emphasised how much dil2b actually hates me, btw, she really does. She maintains I broke her trust, I think she's an attention-seeking drama queen, this is never going to end well. As is right, ds1 is fully supporting his dp and the mother of his pfb, and as a result relationships between ds1 and me have completely broken down. Frankly, I'm past caring. I've run the full gamut of emotions from hair-tearing grief, through shock at their blatant rewriting of history, to rage at the fucking using wee twat I birthed. I'm now "meh" about the lot of them.

DIL2B, however, has other ideas. She has started to demand that I have a relationship with their ds, which sounds positive, but what she actually wants is "stuff", and her email to me makes that very, very clear. She hates me, will not forgive me, does not accept my apology and will not be in the house when I visit (by arrangement, of course.) She's upset because I bought dgs1 (ds2's boy, now 4) lots of "stuff" when he was little, and I should be buying the same sort of "stuff" for dgs2. Thing is, when dgs1 was born it to two teenage parents, only one of whom was working (pt, zero hours contract, nmw), and who did not, at that time, live together, though they spent most nights together either here or with her family. Dgs2 has been born to two fully-adult parents, at least one of whom is ft employed on a rate considerably higher than nmw (am unaware of her status) and who have their own home. And who don't speak to me.

So, yes, I probably did go a bit daft on the toy front, but most of it is usable by other dc. I bought the bigger-ticket items, indoor trampoline, chute, paddling pool, ride-on toys, that sort of thing; they're all durable. I keep them here because my house is big enough and although ds2 and his ex are no longer together, they have resolved their differences and dgs1 stays over two or three nights a week, so he gets a lot of use out of these toys. But dgs2 won't be brought here to visit, so he'll never get to use them; does that mean I should shell out again for stuff they'll keep and I'll never get to see dgs2 enjoying? It's not that they can't afford this stuff if they want it, ds1 got a substantial inheritance from my uncle a couple of months ago, but they want me to pay for it.

So, well done if you've read this far, go and put the kettle on for a Brew because there's more.

If we're sitting comfortably... So, she emailed me this vituperous claptrap four weeks ago. I put off opening it, I'll be honest, I was scared to read it, actually shook at the thought for days. Eventually I had a drink steeled myself, and actually ended up snorting in derision at how blatant her demands for "stuff" were, which was a relief tbh. The email is a complete rewriting of history, apparently she has tried everything to keep communications open blah blah blah. I do intend to reply, but I veer between the emotions decribed above (though I left out the rending of hair this time) and can't quite get the right tone. Ds1 has sent dh horrible texts demanding to know when I'll reply, really nasty in tone, and snotty about me. Yeah, that makes me get the rage want to communicate calmly, and forge a relationship with your pfb.

So (I use that too much, eh?), I am pretty much in a place where I want absolutely nothing further to do with any of them. She hates me, and I don't recognise the ds1 I raised, he's grown into an unpleasant bully, and I'm ashamed of him. It's a pity I won't know dgs2, but dh and ds2 are persisting so I'll still have news, and perhaps he'll choose to visit me when he's older. He'll get nothing positive about me from his mother, but his cousin (dgs1) loves me, so he might get curious.

Then ds2 visited dgs2 during the week, and took photos. He showed me, and I am genuinely shocked.

DIL2B has been overweight, massively so, all of the time I have known her. She has had an eating disorder in the past, and I don't think she's resolved any of the background issues (of course, she might have had intensive counselling, I have no idea) and I think she has a problematic relationship with food, equating it with love in some way?

Anyway, dgs2 looks to me (not a trained professional) to be clinically obese, dangerously so. He is HUGE, he can't move because of his weight, he can't even wave his limbs in the air. This is not "normal baby" chubbiness, cute wee dimples and squidgeyness. This is baby walrus territory. And it has been achieved in about three months; he was a perfectly normal size when I last saw him, and is only 6 months now.

Apparently she has been adding baby rice to every bottle feed since 12 weeks, and spooning purees into him from 16 weeks. :(

So, do I start to take an interest in the child, perhaps rebuild bridges with ds1 (tbh, I don't want to, I don't even like him much any more) and persuade him to see how wrong this is, how dangerous for his pfb? Do I hope the HV sees and says something? Why can't ds1 see for himself? I think he does, he put up a video of the child blowing raspberries and carefully showed nothing but his face (and that's pretty fat, too, but not as revealing as his limbs). Why does he want me involved, and why does he think that being bullying and aggressive will do that?

Sorry, wandered off on another tangent. Wwyd, re-establish relationships in the (quite possibly vain) hopes of changing dgs2's diet to something more babyish, or tell them all to piss off and hope they come to their senses? They're not going to listen to me anyway, are they, I'd just be a judgemental and interfering MIL.

Ok, talked it all through now, they can fuck off. Sorry, dgs2, hope you and your mum get the professional help you so much need and deserve.

Thanks for reading, I don't really expect replies, but it's been cathartic to get it all out.

OP posts:
Mintyy · 24/08/2013 20:38

OP is worried about her grandchild. She has said he is very overweight. That is not being "vile" fgs.

ShipwreckedAndComatose · 24/08/2013 20:38

I agree,Viv.

Pinupgirl · 24/08/2013 20:39

Op does not give a shit about her grandchild-no decent grandparent would call their gc a "walrus"-so get down off your high horse.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

ShipwreckedAndComatose · 24/08/2013 20:41
paperlantern · 24/08/2013 20:41

wouldn't want a chat about my day with someone who discuss es my medical issues with someone other than me or my parent

paperlantern · 24/08/2013 20:43

viv - that was my point two hours ago. op told me I was being unhelpful

Mintyy · 24/08/2013 20:43

You sound very sure of yourself pinup girl. How can you possibly know these things?

Helpmehelpmydgs · 24/08/2013 20:44

Yes, Squirrels, genuine question, and thank you for your answer. I'm in tears again, thought I'd finished with them.

Fuck.

Fuck.

Fuck.

It would be so much easier to cut them off. I've hurt so much already, don't want to give them another chance. No other man on earth would get one.

OP posts:
BalloonSlayer · 24/08/2013 20:44

I wonder, from reading your posts, whether this is an attempt by Dil2b to finally cut off contact.

You have the "never forgiven" thing of speaking to someone about her eating disorder.

Now you have seen video of Dgs2 being extremely overweight.

I expect someone has mentioned this to her already so she knows people may comment.

I think you may have been "allowed" to see this video as a test she thinks you will fail. If you resume contact you will mention his weight and this may be used as fuel to finally cut off all contact.

I suspect your DS has probably been trying to smooth things out a bit. If he comes home and his DP is wailing "Your utter bitch of a mother isn't content with betraying me, now she is saying DS is faaaaat!" he may feel he cannot smooth things out any more.

I would suggest no comment on weight and general love and affection.

NoSquirrels · 24/08/2013 20:45

Disclosure: I am posting on your thread because I have (friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend-type) knowledge of another situation that involves a MIL pushed to limit by DS and GF living in her house but not engaging on any human level -- taking food upstairs, refusing to communicate, fall outs over very petty stuff, conversations and supposed 'wrongdoings' communicated via third party. GF very troubled background, no family on her side, dysfunctional relationship with DS. Subsequently DGC born and now there is no contact, despite the DS being desperate for access to his own child. MIL would do anything, despite the terrible treatment, to support that baby, if only she could get access. I guess I cannot understand why, as an adult, if you are being offered an olive branch you wouldn't take it for the sake of the baby, no matter how diseased and brittle that branch seems right now.

paperlantern · 24/08/2013 20:46

building a relationship with your dil/ds solely so you can tell them their child is fat is vile

leaving aside the walrus comment which is absolutely beyond vile

paperlantern · 24/08/2013 20:48

help - yes they would. They would keep trying because that's thers grandchild and they want to love them

paperlantern · 24/08/2013 20:51

I ve been hurt
it would be easier for me to cut them off.

so do it. or don't. but of you don't you've got to let it all go else the choice to aee your grandson WILL not be yours

Helpmehelpmydgs · 24/08/2013 20:52

Diseased and brittle is right. Thank you for making me think a bit further.

Btw, ds2's ex, mum of dgs1, never had a problem sitting chatting with me, though she's a more outgoing type than dil2b or me.

OP posts:
SweetSeraphim · 24/08/2013 20:52

Right. I've read the whole thread - and although I'm not sure I'm qualifed to answer as none of mine are in relationships yet - what sticks out to me is that you are prepared to give up contact with your SON. And that to me, reads as if it's punishment for him not picking you over her, iyswim.

paperlantern · 24/08/2013 20:54

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Helpmehelpmydgs · 24/08/2013 20:55

It really isn't, Seraphin, though I can see why it might look that way. I was desperate for him to go, and if she makes him happy, that's fine by me. I do want him to be happy, he is my pfb, but I'm finding it very hard to like him much.

OP posts:
EldritchCleavage · 24/08/2013 20:57

Not getting into the accusatory arseholery the thread has degenerated into.

The email isn't quite an olive branch but you could treat it as one along the lines Maryz suggested.

Equally you do need to protect yourself from abuse and mistreatment. Being categorised as the ultimate baddie (fairly or unfairly) gives the accuser a lot of power. You can be put in a position where you get no consideration whatsoever but all the accuser's demands of you must be met, as a sort of neverending compensation.

So,could you text/email your DS? Just ask him lots of questions: what kind of relationship do they want, do they want to try and deal with the past, given how things are, what is realistic? If you are never going to be forgiven, how is this going to work? etc etc

paperlantern · 24/08/2013 20:57

whether you get on with your other dil is irrelevant. im guessing you never discussed a sensitive medical condition of hers with a third party.

Helpmehelpmydgs · 24/08/2013 21:03

You may have a plan, Eldritch. I've been hiding from this for so long I suppose, letting it slide, and resentments build on both sides.

OP posts:
ShipwreckedAndComatose · 24/08/2013 21:05

An honest, not blame attached email to DS, plus the non committal one to DIL as Maryz suggested, would certainly be worth one more shot.

That way it really is up to them how they respond and would help reveal what it is they really do want

NoSquirrels · 24/08/2013 21:06

It's OK not to have liked their behaviour. It's OK that it hurt you. And you don't need to justify that you are someone people will chat with. I accept what you are saying, that they behaved in a way that has caused you to detach. That's understandable to me.

But you have come across as somewhat cold here, for whatever reason. I can see why people are singling out some of your behaviour too for criticism. You have to accept that although you had your reasons for reducing contact etc (didn't want to expose preemie to your germs/couldn't drop in because of lack of relationship with DIL/ etc) you have been as culpable in not persevering with a relationship and so it's come to this.

My DH often gets offended when I point out something that has upset me/made me feel a certain way, and there's always a valid reason WHY he did something, but that's not the point, is it? He still caused me to feel a certain way, and so should take responsibility for that no matter his intentions. And in return I will accept there was no malice aforethought, and we'll both try not to let the same thing happen again. I think you need to try to accept that your DIL is hurt regardless of her bad behaviour/lack of social skills etc and hopefully they will also return the favour as time goes on and not always paint you as the baddie.

But, like I say, a certain amount of sucking it up will need to go on. . .

EldritchCleavage · 24/08/2013 21:06

Even ask him to meet you and DH for coffee with the baby-not your house or his, short visit, and ask him in person.

RandomMess · 24/08/2013 21:07

Eldritch was much better at putting across what I was thinking.

There are going to be tears and heartache ahead because of what has already happened but at least if you get in touch with your ds then you really do know you have tried everything.

Helpmehelpmydgs · 24/08/2013 21:11

Thank you again Squirrels. I sound cold because at the beginning of this thread I had decided to cut them off, I have to feel cold towards them, a MrsDV said, to protect myself, because it does hurt.

But I seem to be melting a bit. Thank you all.

Well, most of you. Grin

OP posts:
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