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This is very, very long, and yes, I've NC'd.

216 replies

Helpmehelpmydgs · 24/08/2013 14:44

My DS1 and his gf lived together for a few years, half here and half with her family, before finally moving into their own place a couple of years ago. They got together as teenagers and are now mid-twenties.

I will admit I was massively relieved when they moved out, the atmosphere in my home lightened immediately. They were always rather "disapproving" towards dh and me, there was a fair amount of "antler-clashing" (words, no violence) between DS1 and dh, and ds1 and ds2, and it was all just getting a bit tired. While they were here, they contributed nothing; no housework, no bills, no rent. They didn't even provide company and entertainment, they just took their evening meals upstairs to eat and wouldn't be seen again till morning.

Anyway, they have basically cut communications since they left. Ds1 passes close to our home twice every working day and has never called in just for a natter and a cup of tea. He has never phoned just for a chat, and eventually stopped even responding to his dad's friendly sports-related texts. He didn't even acknowledge FB messages. (I know, I know...) Eventually I blocked him on FB because it became obvious that his dp was using the login to post snidey, passive-aggressive comments aimed at me, and I don't need that kind of childish shit in my life.

So, roll on the months, and ds1 drops by to tell us they're having a baby. We say "Congratulations, when's it due?", he tells us and leaves. Five minutes tops, and the next we hear is when the baby is born premature, by emergency CS, and later needs surgery at a few weeks old. We were "permitted" to visit in the hospital, dh and ds2 went, I didn't because I had a streaming cold and didn't think a tiny newborn should be exposed to that. Eventually I met him at about three months when they dropped by for five minutes; he was taken out of the car, but not the carseat (fair enough, he was asleep) so I could admire from a distance. I was never invited to visit him in their home, and I have never been the kind of person to drop in uninvited; particularly where dil2b is so clearly hostile towards me I wouldn't even consider it. I know how hard the early days are and would never just "drop by" on a new mum, especially one who'd just had major abdominal surgery, I don't even phone in case I'd disturb a nap.

I don't think I've emphasised how much dil2b actually hates me, btw, she really does. She maintains I broke her trust, I think she's an attention-seeking drama queen, this is never going to end well. As is right, ds1 is fully supporting his dp and the mother of his pfb, and as a result relationships between ds1 and me have completely broken down. Frankly, I'm past caring. I've run the full gamut of emotions from hair-tearing grief, through shock at their blatant rewriting of history, to rage at the fucking using wee twat I birthed. I'm now "meh" about the lot of them.

DIL2B, however, has other ideas. She has started to demand that I have a relationship with their ds, which sounds positive, but what she actually wants is "stuff", and her email to me makes that very, very clear. She hates me, will not forgive me, does not accept my apology and will not be in the house when I visit (by arrangement, of course.) She's upset because I bought dgs1 (ds2's boy, now 4) lots of "stuff" when he was little, and I should be buying the same sort of "stuff" for dgs2. Thing is, when dgs1 was born it to two teenage parents, only one of whom was working (pt, zero hours contract, nmw), and who did not, at that time, live together, though they spent most nights together either here or with her family. Dgs2 has been born to two fully-adult parents, at least one of whom is ft employed on a rate considerably higher than nmw (am unaware of her status) and who have their own home. And who don't speak to me.

So, yes, I probably did go a bit daft on the toy front, but most of it is usable by other dc. I bought the bigger-ticket items, indoor trampoline, chute, paddling pool, ride-on toys, that sort of thing; they're all durable. I keep them here because my house is big enough and although ds2 and his ex are no longer together, they have resolved their differences and dgs1 stays over two or three nights a week, so he gets a lot of use out of these toys. But dgs2 won't be brought here to visit, so he'll never get to use them; does that mean I should shell out again for stuff they'll keep and I'll never get to see dgs2 enjoying? It's not that they can't afford this stuff if they want it, ds1 got a substantial inheritance from my uncle a couple of months ago, but they want me to pay for it.

So, well done if you've read this far, go and put the kettle on for a Brew because there's more.

If we're sitting comfortably... So, she emailed me this vituperous claptrap four weeks ago. I put off opening it, I'll be honest, I was scared to read it, actually shook at the thought for days. Eventually I had a drink steeled myself, and actually ended up snorting in derision at how blatant her demands for "stuff" were, which was a relief tbh. The email is a complete rewriting of history, apparently she has tried everything to keep communications open blah blah blah. I do intend to reply, but I veer between the emotions decribed above (though I left out the rending of hair this time) and can't quite get the right tone. Ds1 has sent dh horrible texts demanding to know when I'll reply, really nasty in tone, and snotty about me. Yeah, that makes me get the rage want to communicate calmly, and forge a relationship with your pfb.

So (I use that too much, eh?), I am pretty much in a place where I want absolutely nothing further to do with any of them. She hates me, and I don't recognise the ds1 I raised, he's grown into an unpleasant bully, and I'm ashamed of him. It's a pity I won't know dgs2, but dh and ds2 are persisting so I'll still have news, and perhaps he'll choose to visit me when he's older. He'll get nothing positive about me from his mother, but his cousin (dgs1) loves me, so he might get curious.

Then ds2 visited dgs2 during the week, and took photos. He showed me, and I am genuinely shocked.

DIL2B has been overweight, massively so, all of the time I have known her. She has had an eating disorder in the past, and I don't think she's resolved any of the background issues (of course, she might have had intensive counselling, I have no idea) and I think she has a problematic relationship with food, equating it with love in some way?

Anyway, dgs2 looks to me (not a trained professional) to be clinically obese, dangerously so. He is HUGE, he can't move because of his weight, he can't even wave his limbs in the air. This is not "normal baby" chubbiness, cute wee dimples and squidgeyness. This is baby walrus territory. And it has been achieved in about three months; he was a perfectly normal size when I last saw him, and is only 6 months now.

Apparently she has been adding baby rice to every bottle feed since 12 weeks, and spooning purees into him from 16 weeks. :(

So, do I start to take an interest in the child, perhaps rebuild bridges with ds1 (tbh, I don't want to, I don't even like him much any more) and persuade him to see how wrong this is, how dangerous for his pfb? Do I hope the HV sees and says something? Why can't ds1 see for himself? I think he does, he put up a video of the child blowing raspberries and carefully showed nothing but his face (and that's pretty fat, too, but not as revealing as his limbs). Why does he want me involved, and why does he think that being bullying and aggressive will do that?

Sorry, wandered off on another tangent. Wwyd, re-establish relationships in the (quite possibly vain) hopes of changing dgs2's diet to something more babyish, or tell them all to piss off and hope they come to their senses? They're not going to listen to me anyway, are they, I'd just be a judgemental and interfering MIL.

Ok, talked it all through now, they can fuck off. Sorry, dgs2, hope you and your mum get the professional help you so much need and deserve.

Thanks for reading, I don't really expect replies, but it's been cathartic to get it all out.

OP posts:
Helpmehelpmydgs · 24/08/2013 17:49

But I don't want a relationship, paperlantern, DIL2B is insisting we have one!

OP posts:
Maryz · 24/08/2013 17:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Maryz · 24/08/2013 17:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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NoSquirrels · 24/08/2013 17:54

Can you say: "I would love to see DGS and have a relationship with him. I do feel upset that because you and I and DS1 have fallen out in the past I don't see my DGS now. I would like to think we can move on from this, but it may take time."

and then leave ball in their court?

paperlantern · 24/08/2013 17:56

yes. even if actually it is entirely justified, in the person s very best interest and serves their life. The first words out my mouth would be "sorry and are you ok".

NoSquirrels · 24/08/2013 17:56

You don't want a relationship with DS and DIL or you don't want a relationship with DGS?

paperlantern · 24/08/2013 17:57

you don't want a relationship so don't have one

Helpmehelpmydgs · 24/08/2013 17:57

I didn't ask a qualified person, just a very, very experienced person. It's not as if I have any actual duty of maintaining confidentiality anyway, I'm the hated MIL, not her counsellor. And absolutely no ill has befallen her, her news has gone no further.

Incidentally, she found out what I'd done about 18 months before she said anything, she saved that for her parting tear-filled flounce when they moved out. In the meantime, a very minor infraction had been built up in her imagination into this massive, unforgivable breach of confidentiality, from which our relationship will never recover... but give us the first month's rent, a new bed and bedding, and the vacuum cleaner upon which I have set my heart

(Actually, they didn't ask for the vacuum, I bought it unsolicited, thought it was a nice "welcome to the family" extra. That'll larn me. AIBU to hope she thinks of me every time she uses it? Grin)

OP posts:
DioneTheDiabolist · 24/08/2013 17:59

I dont understand OP, how did she discover that you had broken her confidence if you only told one person and that person told no-one?Confused

Journey · 24/08/2013 18:00

They only want you back in their lives for material things.

If you reply to an email I would only give a one sentence reply, or I'd ignore it.

Firstly though you need to decide what you want. If you want to see your grandson I'd tell them you'd like him dropped off at your house for an hour. I'd would buy your grandson nothing. Hard probably but your grandson is none the wiser at this stage. As soon as you buy them things you're back under their thumb.

Relatives can hurt each other badly but you're in control of not being a victimn in this situation.

karinmaria · 24/08/2013 18:02

I think the breaking of confidence is a red herring OP. You've apologised to your DIL2B and she has chosen not to accept your apology. The email shows how little she thinks of you (although she must be awfully angry to have sent it).

There is so much blame within this story unfortunately. I can understand you not wanting to see your DS2 and his GF but not your DGS2 because of them? Especially as you see DGS1 so much. He's only a baby! He shouldn't suffer because of your relationship with his parents.

When he was premature and then in his newborn months, did you explain why you didn't visit at the hospital? Did you ever send a card, a gift, text messages explaining you didn't want to phone and potentially wake the baby? (Yes I know your DH gave them two baby grows which we're rudely rejected but he's not the one who might never get to know his DGS2.)

Personally I would reply to that email, just to give your DH a break from all the nagging and playing piggy in the middle. Plus you won't have to worry about your DS2 being there when you get home and then having a stressful argument.

I'd stick with other advice - I'm sorry you feel that way, I'd love to see my DGS2, I know I've not been in touch much but didn't want to intrude, we bought the toys etc for all our future grandchildren to play with at our house etc.

You don't have to have a relationship with them to have a relationship with your DGS2 Smile you will probably need to be polite at times but that will piss them both off more as there will be nothing to slag you off about so it's sort of a win win situation for you!

paperlantern · 24/08/2013 18:05

tbh that sounds pretty hideous to me.

Your dil can't force you to have a relationship. you have the choice.
you may despise the parents with a passion but for your dgc sake. keep that to yourself. see your dgc, take them out. you don't have to comment on the email or buy him loads of stuff. Just email back id lovw to see my dgc name a time and place ans ill be there. you don't need to communicate with mum beyond that at all.

Just enjoy your time with your grandson.

if you can't/don't want that, you don't even need to bother with the email at all

Helpmehelpmydgs · 24/08/2013 18:06

That person told her, Dione, in all innocence.

OP posts:
fryingpantoface · 24/08/2013 18:07

Ah helpme it sounds like you're screwed either way.

I second, or maybe third, the ""I would of course love to see you all. You are very welcome to the house, just email me when you would like to come around and we can spend a bit of time together. Or if you like, I can come to you, it would be lovely to see you".

Just that. No more. Ignore what she has said about presents. Don't call them dgs1's toys, call them "toys we keep at our house for our grandchildren""

That's the only way you can go. Just breeze past the rest of the bitternes and reply like that

paperlantern · 24/08/2013 18:08

dont think op did apologise (or indeed see anything wrong in h
her behaviour)

Helpmehelpmydgs · 24/08/2013 18:10

I did apologise in writing. In writing, she refuses to accept my apology and declares she can never forgive me.

OP posts:
ShipwreckedAndComatose · 24/08/2013 18:13

Sounds awful! So sorry for you Sad

I think Maryz advice is spot on.

You either tell them you want no further contact. Or toy send the email as she suggests. All calmness and pushing that ball firmly into her court.

paperlantern · 24/08/2013 18:15

her perogative to do so. not surprised to be honest. an apology isn't worth much if you dont understand the hurt caused.

I agree it is a red herring. if you want a relationship with your grandchild it needs to be separate from and politely distant from your dil.

Tortington · 24/08/2013 18:18

i have a DIL like this - well they aren't married but DIl is easier to write.

no GCs thank god.

Like you, they stayed with me until they were both unbearable an i asked them both to leave.

still have a good relationship with my son. realise that my son chooses her as the love of his life, as such have continued to be nice to her and include her espite reports home to me of the name calling and how i do nothing for them ( except all the effing money i 'lend' them and never see again)

anyway, recently she e-mailed me at work, they were in financial dificulties, they were going to be evicted. dh and i did everything we could apart from give them money. we took days off work to take them to CAB, to write letters to housing, to phone all the bill suppliers etc.

next i get e-mail at work telling me all kids of really unkind shit.

I simply did not respond.

any response will get to my son and help her to further damage our relationship.

i simply withdraw communication.

In your shoes, i would send an e-mail thus:

Dear x,

Just to let you know i am no longer using this e-mail account. If you would like to speak in person, please text DH to arrange a time to visit.

paperlantern · 24/08/2013 18:20

I'm sorry but who on earth thinks it's ok to discuss a sensitive medical condition, with a friend, however they may be experienced. at worst it looks like gossiping

paperlantern · 24/08/2013 18:37

To be fair is there are two entirely different views of your joint history

your view is that you've cared and provided for two individuals who have cut you out of your life.

her view probably is that because of her reduced circumstances she was forced to accept help from someone who, from her perspective badly broke her trust. she probably resented every bit of he she had to accept

two entirely different (and valid) perspectives

She's still trying to tell you her perspective, it isn't going to work. your still pushing yours, just as futile. keep going there can't possibly be a relationship with your grandchild.

refocus your attention on your grandson and you can at least have a relationship with him. if indeed your grandson is more important than holding onto the hurt

froubylou · 24/08/2013 18:37

Op you sound lovely and the situation sounds horrid.

Perhaps it is your ds putting pressure on her to offer an olive branch so she is doing so but grudgingly? And with conditions she expects you to not agree to.

I would tell her that you would love to spend time with your dgs and that there are lots of lovely stuff at your home for him to use.

And then just leave it at that. You can't do much about the concerns you have regarding his weight except hope once he is more mobile the weight comes off him.

I would maybe invent a family party or meal at your house when your other son and gc is there for a first meeting if it gets that far. Takes the pressure off all of you if others are there.

Hope it turns out ok for you all xx

PauseandRewind · 24/08/2013 18:45

Oh dear OP, you're pretty much in a no win situation. Your DIL2B holds the trump card, ie: your DGS2. If you cut contact you risk never seeing him and if you try to build bridges she'll have you jumping through bloody hoops. You must though remain as dignified as is humanly possible in your reply. Good luck.

ffsx2 · 24/08/2013 18:46

Maryz said wise things (I'm sure others have, too).
I couldn't not try to find the child's HV and express my concerns, though.

Helpmehelpmydgs · 24/08/2013 18:47

Paperlantern, I admire your imagination, but she was in no way living "in reduced circumstances." Most of the time she was under my roof, she was employed ft and, may I remind you, paying no rent, bills, food etc. She had/has a healthy amount in savings and was able to add to them because I was picking up at least 50% of her tab. And if she resents me for that, well, that would account for the complete breakdown in communications.

Thanks to everyone else, I am reading all your replies.

OP posts:
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