"Strivers vs Skivers" - what do you think?

[KateMumsnet]

Hello all

Prompted by a blog post this week from MN Blogger Sonya Cisco, and this opinion piece by BlogFest panellist Zoe Williams, for our first blog-prompt of the New Year we thought we'd ask for your thoughts on the current debate around benefits cuts.

According to both Sonya and Zoe, politicians have deliberately encouraged us to think of people as either 'skivers' or 'strivers' in order to pit people on low incomes against one another - and to divert attention from the fact that the economy simply can't provide enough jobs.

Do you agree with them? And if not - why not? Post your URLs here if you blog - or, if you haven't got a blog (why not? ) do tell us what you think here on the thread.

Yes, get on your bike, screw everyone else, screw your country, screw your own people, as long as it makes for Jack being alright, that's the main thing.

I suspect I am not amongst a majority of people sharing my views on this thread....

No, the way it works is you get on your bike on an individual basis to do your best for your family and then you do well and pay a lot of tax and that keeps those whose bike journeys did not succeed who therefore owe the fact they are able to eat to the fact that enough women are prepared to get on that bike and work very hard to give back more than half of what they earn to help the poor. In other words the getting on of the bike is a charitable act in a sense as it helps those less fortunate or not up for the ride. If we all sat there in hopeless slough of despond saying oh woe is me there is no way out no income would be generated to pay state benefits at all.

Xenia I agree to a point but lets not forget that some might never be able to get on that bike in the first place.

I was fortunate enough to be able to anf for 30 years wworked and paid taxes. I am hugely grateful that the State is here to support me now I cannot work for a period of time.That does not mean I want to tug ny forelock at every passing hivher rate tax payer....not unless they are giving thanks their tax bill is not higher because I care for and fund extras for ny disabled child. It works both ways.

I seriously doubt you've ever had to 'get on your bike' or done anything remotely related to struggling in your life Xenia.

You don't seem to grasp how being priveliged makes a difference?

Xenia, it must be amazing to be you. Maybe if everyone cut ties with their loved ones and got over themselves for being disabled the economy would be thriving.

i am certainly very lucky and most of all for being mentally and physically healthy and happy. However I have also worked hard full time for 30 years without a break longer than 2 weeks including maternity leaves and I work 50 weeks a year. Of course I don't need benefits claimants to be kissing my feet in gratitude but I do think the example of women who have moved miles from family to find work and then who do well are a great example for other women, particularly women on low incomes to show what is possible. We can be a very negative society and defeatist at times and that is a shame.

As for whether I have struggled it's all relative. I have had my share of difficulties over various kinds like most people. As I've said on business threads I have had a lot of failures and luckily some things succeed. Most don't but I seem to be like an india rubber ball,look on the bright side and always bounce back.

Anyway if people on benefits want to have a pity fest I will leave them to indulge. It might be more beneficial to look on a daily basis at what enterprise you can start and work every day on those business plans and a heap more fun. Loko at what you can do not what you can't do. The glass is half full.

Indeed you are Xenia.

I'm on my bike. Pedalling for my children, ensuring they get the best care, all whilst trying to stay fit enough to continue being their carer, because when you are disabled yourself, people are watching to make sure you are actually able to care for them properly, and if you aren't there is a chance of losing them. I am so busy playing ball trying to please agencies and get safe housing and get diagnosis and keep hyper children entertained and catch up on sleep and fill out all their forms and appeal until I get the right decision and do all my accounts for the council for my carer. Don't think I would find time anywhere to pull myself together and bounce back with a business plan.

Perhaps when children are brought up in relative poverty they do develop a glass half full outlook.

Its very easy for priviledged children to grow up thinking the world is their oyster because it usually is.

I just tried that calculator, it says we would be about 400 quid better off in work. Oh goody. That presupposes that I were not too disabled to work, and that my dh wasn't my carer and therefore was free to work. So, whoopdidoo! riches are nearly ours

Today I have applied for two jobs. The only ones I have qualifications and experience for. If the last hundred applications are anything to go by, I wont even get an interview!

The strivers versus skivers narrative has notbeen invented by this government. It was alive and kicking under the last one.

Whilst doorstep canvassing, that's all you heard from Labour and Conservative voters alike. The poor, be they working or not were absolutely not in harmony.

This government are just tapping into a deep seated feeling in the UK.

They are whipping up hatred though word which is what worries me.

All the bollocks about neighbours curtains being drawn etc "sleeping off a life on benefits while the tax payer goes to work". Yes a minority may be like that but most are not and these comments encourage us to "judge" our neighbours. This is why you see posts on MN moaning about the neighbour up the road supposedly disabled with a brand new car...not knowing ANYTHING about said neighbour apart from the fact he has a disabled sticker in the car. Everyone is frightened that someone is getting something they themselves are not.

I am on benefits......my curtains may be drawn because:

I forgot to pull them (am up by 6am most days)
I am sleeping in as DS was up a lot in the night.

What I am not doing is sleeping off some mythical golden hedonistic life because I haven't the time, the energy or the money despite what Gideon would have the masses believe.

And while I can ride a bike and did ride a bike for 30 years as a midwife I didn't get the huge salary which people like Xenia can command....my choice and we will always need midwives. I do resent though being judged by anyone now I have to claim......it's so bad I feel guilty handing over my proof card for free prescriptions. The sales lady doesn't know I am a veteran of 30 years employment, to her I am yet another benefits claimant sucking the land dry because people like Gideon said so.

My shutters are closed because it keeps the warmth in; because atm I can barely move my arm so can't reach to open them; because I haven't got around to opening them; because I'm happy with them closed for the moment.

Mind you, a not-very-good-friend assumes they're closed because dh and I are snoring away all morning. Presumably she also assumes dd has got up and gone off to school without any goodbye other than our snores. Silly woman.

It is certainly worth if people have time to write on mumsnet and are wealthy enough to have a computer and afford the internet which it appears those on benefits can afford.... their also trying to make money by typing on line. There are a lot of businesses you can run just by typing at home and on line. I do encourage those on benefits to try every day to set aside even just 30 minutes to generate self employed business and hopefully the new universal credit will make it easier to start a business as I think there is a 12 months start up period during which benefits may not be affected and you could earn small sums whilst you get started.

Some of us are tied into contracts Xenia....in any case I don't have much free time ....or a laptop/computer come to that. I am typing on a mobile.

I think everyone needs access to the Internet these days. I could use the library but tbh my broadband costs just £12 a month...not horrendous....and DS's Dad pays for it.

Point me to a genuine "typing online" business please xenia.

Oh and give over with going on about benefit claimants having internet. Its said all the time on here. FFS. Why shouldnt they have internet if they budget their money to afford it? They arent second class citizens.

When you lose your job contracts dont just stop needing paid.

Im the same as Jake, typing on my phone. Pay for broadband because its cheaper than mobile web. No laptop.

The families I help as a volunteer parent supporter often need help with basic stuff like reading, writing and Maths. Far more than getting them online to run a business I try and encourage them to attend literacy or numeracy classes....I will even go with them if getting out is an issue.

Nothing wrong with your idea for those able Xenia, lots of ads come up locally with stuff being sold by private individuals with small businesses...some individuals need help with more basic problems first .

Haven't read all the posts, but I work with the long term unemployed. The reality that a lot of the benefit bashers seem to miss is that unfortunately there are a significant proportion of claimants who will NEVER be able to sustain long term employment. Yes, many can do menial jobs for short periods of time, but the issue is they can't sustain them. Literacy and numeracy issues are a huge part of this, but that's only part of the problem. Mental health issues, addictions, chaotic home lives, the cost of childcare, poor coping mechanisms, the list goes on. Some simply are a lost cause and just need help to be able to maintain a tenancy, never mind make it to work. God knows how they will cope when the universal credit comes in.

Have just read Xenias comment about hoping universal credit improves things- it absolutely won't. It will simply lead to huge rent arrears, housing associations being unable to borrow money to build new properties and evictions.

when the new uc comes in and the housing benefit is paid to the claimant, what happens if the claimant spends part of it on something else....will they be made homeless?

Depends how much arrears they run up, but potentially, yes. They will then be evicted and have to move in to the private rental sector where land lords may be less tolerant.

I spoke to a Jobcentreplus advisor about this and his opinion was that it had all been tried before....didn't work then and won't work now.

I have mixed views on this....partly I feel people have to have some responsibility and getting an amount of money in to pay the rent which is then used for exactly that purpose is good. When I earned a salary this is exactly what I did and is what most people who work have to do...either with or without a housing benefit top up.

However, I also think there are plenty of folk who cannot and will not cope with this because they cannot for mental health or learning disability issues or because they live utterly chaotic lifestyles. If you have doorstep lenders breathing down your neck and a largish sum in the bank it might be all too easy to buy some time from the doorstep lenders and think "I'll catch up with the rent next month".

I predict chaos to be honest.

It won't affect me....at the moment I get full housing benefit which is paid direct to the housing association. When things change over I will just ensure it goes to the HA the same day it hits my bank...end of.