DH offered a job in Dubai

[SESthebrave]

DH has often spoken about taking a job abroad. Initially I was clear that I wouldn't choose to do that but he would start trying to describe the detail when he hadn't received a concrete offer. In the end - about 3or 4years ago - I said to him that he knew how I felt but that I wouldn't be in a position to make a firm decision until he had a definite offer - ie salary, country, etc.
In the last 3-4yrs there have probably been about 10 specific jobs he has spoken about where they may be interested. These have all been in either Qatar, Dubai or Australia but have never resulted in a firm offer.

That is until today. On Monday DH mentioned he'd had an email about a job in Dubai. Suddenly today, there is an email with a firm offer.

There are a number of reasons why I don't want to move abroad, some of them I admit are selfish. My reasons are:

• DC2 is due on 27th May. I do not want to move before the baby is born or within the first 2-3 months after the baby is here. DH has said that he may have to move out there in that time and could be away for the birth.
• I have lived in the town we are in since I was 2yo and have family (my parents) and friends here as well as roots in the community through our church.
• my career is going well and I have built up good service with my company and have agreed with my boss that upon return from ML, I will be pushing for promotion. I could apply for a 1yr career break after ML but that would not guarantee me a job at my current grading and would write off thoughts of prompt promotion
• I'm worried I would be bored without work and my usual mummy friends.
• DS is 2.10yo and settled well at nursery with a good group of friends.
• I'm not sure I want for us all to be so far away from family. Neither my parents nor DH's parents enjoy the best of health and would not travel to visit us.

There are obviously advantages. These are:

• financially, we would have a good income tax free. Car and villa are provided with utilities paid.
• DH may not get another opportunity and he really wants to do it.
• DH would probably be looking for another job anyway within 12 months as he finds his current one stressful. Another job would likely mean a play cut in the current economic climate.

We've talked things through this evening but can't seem to find a solution we are both happy with. Please help!

SESthebrave, if you are of childbearing age, then your DH's company have to offer maternity cover - it's the law.

Sorry that your qualifications are not recognised here. That's a shame, as we are crying out for good, Western pharmacology staff.

OP, I can see why he's frustrated - perhaps you've been less than clear in the past about going abroad, but as you say it does come down to specific postings, and your career is probably in a different place now, as well. If you're serious about not going to Dubai, then don't agree to a trip there to see what it's like. As lovely as it may be, you will still be unemployed and half a world away from your family. Those facts won't change because you like it there. And stringing him along will only make him angrier when you decide against going.

He does very much sound like he's having a crisis of some kind. But he can't just drive the expat bulldozer over your hopes and dreams. For the expat thing to work, everyone needs to be on board. And you're not on board.

Marie - the OP doesn't want to move, and doesn't want to give up her career. If you've done enough postings, you'll agree that some people really do not suit the unemployed spouse life and are miserable. The smart ones know that before they get on the plane.

I guess I am identifying with the OP"s DH as we came out here with my job. My DH was reluctant to move at first, but he gradually got his head around the idea and loves it here now. I think I would have really resented him if he had refused to come, even for a year or two.

if you do come out on a visit DO NOT look at it as a holiday, you would not be a tourist. Look sees are for checking out properties ( most rentals are for a year and it's still common for landlords to expect the whole lot in advance ( or in two or three cheques) also schools have long waiting lists ( I know your ds is only small but you do need to put names down soon.

And trips to supermarkets to work out the costs ( food is stupidly expensive)

boring mundane stuff.. Not glam hotels and camels a la Kardashians

Looking back at your OP I see that car and villa are provided ..which is great if it's a lovely villa in a nice area.... If its run down ( and a lot of them in the older areas they can be) that's not such a great idea .... And you're stuck with it.

My cousin had exactly the same dilemma 3 years ago. Her DH was in construction and they ended up going to Dubai on a 2 year rolling contract. He loved it out there-lots of socialising and he loved the people he worked with. She had very early starts driving their DS (miles) to school-which he hated and cried a lot-then days shut up at home trying to make conversation with vacuous women who spent all day having their nails done. He ended up having an affair with a lady he worked with and she came home after 18 months. He's still out there, with the lady and she's working in a crappy job and has missed out on the pension.

She was quite keen to go though-whereas you sound a lot more unsure. Obviously, what he did was really shite and I'm sure your husband wouldn't-but he's asking you to give up a lot!

SES, really sorry that this is causing there to be harsh words between you - not what you need with a baby on the way. The trampling on his dreams accusations sound unfair. One question though - if he has always wanted to work abroad and you have said that you would support that of the right opportunity came along, but this is not the right opportunity because of the effect on your career.....in which countries where he would have good prospects would your pharmacy quals be recognised? If there are none then the right opportunity is never going to come along but if there are some then maybe you could steer him towards looking for jobs in that country.

I imagine that there may be some sort of EU- wide mutual recognition thing, but you'd find it hard to do the job outside the UK unless you spoke the language. My SIL is a pharmacist and I recall her and my DB looking at Australia but finding to their surprise that she'd be set back several years to requalify there. Do any of the trade mags contain ads for jobs outside the UK? Or could you maybe look for a non clinical role with perhaps a big pharma multinational? If none of that would work for you then perhaps you do have to explain to him as gently as possible that abroad is not going to happen.

Hi SES,
I agree with some of the other posts - Dubai could be fab & your ML period is the perfect time to give it a go, during which you could work out whether you wanted to stay or come back to your promotion chances at Boots.

What package is being offered though? in addition to car, house you also need schools paid for, full medical aid, agreed exit/repatriation and 1 or 2 return tickets a year back to the UK which in an ideal world could be transferred to your family members if you wanted.... You might also like to ask for a spouse allowance to pay for a course for you to do if you are worried about being a SAHM and getting bored. Alternatively DH salary needs to be high enough to cover these.

AND..... his salary needs to be at least as much as yours & his currently are or it does not make sense.

However - do not go without taking a recce trip as a couple first. It would be madness to accept a job resulting in such upheaval without one. What happens if you hate the area you are expected to live in? or you discover the company will not pay for a house in an area with other british expats nears the school you want your DS to attend? or you do the maths & work out you would be worse off? +if he does not go for long enough the salary would not be tax free as he would not become non UK tax resident.

Do check these things. I was offered a job in the ME a few years ago and the salary was terrible once you factored in all the costs. My DH was up for it, he would not have been able to work though! We were quite put out when we realised the actual salary cut I would end up taking. So yes, please check out the package & do not rush to accept anything.

BTW - do you think you will definitely want to go back to work in a years time with 2 DCs AND go for promotion whether FT or PT working? I only raise the questions as I know too many families who have struggled with childcare, 2 careers, promo prospects and just being working parents where in the end 1 spouse has taken a long sabbatical from work with the intention of being a SAHP until the youngest starts school. If this might happen to you why not consider a sunny sabbatical instead?!

If you do get a recce trip and the package is good - it could be amazing for a short while ..... I know people who moved far away overseas whilst almost ready to give birth. They are all doing well and enjoying life. However .....

.... a 6 day week for an expat in the ME is not normal. I could not accept such a scenario in your position. Why is there a 6 day week? He is an expat wanting to move with a family so should insist on a 5 day contract. If all the other guys working there are locals or single men working a 6 day week I am not sure he would enjoy it - they would have nothing in common!!

Is he clutching at straws?

Can you press the point home that you are not against working overseas but the ME could only ever be a short term option for you due to your career options? Would he accept only doing it for a year or 2 or 3 whilst you took a sabbatical?

If you are serious about going overseas then be clear about where you would consider going and what the investment of time would be for you (most countries I suspect you would need to do some kind of re qualification or certification of your current qualifications). He needs to value your career and understand what you would do, what it would mean and you both need to agree at what point with DCs is it going to work.

For what it is worth here is my story: I too am pregnant and due in May. My DH & I had a similar issue a year ago - DH unhappy with work, itching for a change, had been itching for a change for a while, poor prospects in the UK and then along came a job offer on a contract basis from an African city. It was not ideal timing as we had just agreed we were ready to TTC a 1st child. I have always said I would go overseas but there.... ?! nah, certainly not on my list of places to live - with or without kids!!! Anyhow, based on his unhappiness and the fact I was going for a promo at work I agreed to let him go on his own on the basis he would commute fortnightly. ie with me every other Fri am until Mon. (was an overnight flight there & back on a Thurs & Mon pm for him).

It worked for us for 9 months but we did not have DCs. In any case the novelty wore off after 6 months & I did not want to spend any more time apart - relationships can drift because you both become more independent. To avoid this I am currently on an unpaid break from work (prior to starting ML next month) and have spent the last 6 weeks in Africa with him. I fly back to the UK in a few weeks and face the prospect of having DC1 in the UK on my own whilst DH works overseas, albeit with my Friends & Family within a hour or 3 of me; which I figured will be better than being overseas whilst DH is at work but with no other support network. However he will commute weekly (with me in the UK Fri am - Sun pm). Not ideal but job prospects in the UK are not improving and redundancies are still common - the year ahead looks crap too.

I plan to take 9-12 months ML so I am sure (if DH is still here) I will be out here again with DC1 after the British summer and could see myself out here until I have to return to work next April (avoiding another Brit winter!!). I may even consider looking for a job out here if DH were to get a permanent contract (unlikely!).

Africa has surprised me in fact - I quite like it here. I am glad I got the chance to spend 10 weeks here with DH to get a feel for the place BUT we have always both been clear about the future - if I hated it we would not stay and after DC1 is born and I need DH back in the UK he will give up this job and get back asap to be with me & DC1 and to find any UK job as soon as. He knows this and I trust him to "do the right thing". Finances in the short term would be tight but at least we would be together.

This weekly/fortnightly commuting is actually more common than I realised -if you really do not want the upheaval could you stomach it? Many children grow up like this so it is workable.... not sure it is something I would want to do with primary school kids though - far too much like hard work!!! I have friends that do it within the UK and those who grew up with a parent working far away.... they all seem ok!

Whatever you both decide to do - try to keep the discussions unemotional (not easy I know so close to birth - I was crying like a moron last night and had a massive row with DH!!) and make a decision based on practical issues - you living in the same place since you were 2 should not feature in the discussion!.

It does not sound like your heart is in it for Dubai right now but that is not to say a better job offer will not come along which you could stomach and would be at the right time. Your DH may just have to accept this set back for now..... & keep looking.

Good luck. (sorry for the essay)

Had another brief chat tonight. DH still wants to go to Dubai. The offer is open until the end of the week and if he doesn't take it, they will look for someone else (they did have someone else with similar experience they were talking to already).

I know some of my reasons for not going are selfish but seriously I think the timing of this particular job just means it is not on. As I have said, he could potentially be away for the birth and first few months of DC2. I believe this would have impact on me, him, DC2 and DS.

Tonight he denies he is stressed and depressed since he took the new role with his current company but believes there is a risk that could happen in the future and that the current job will not give him the career progression that he would like.

What do I do?!

All of his reasons for going are selfish though. Don't go.

Hi, SES. Have just read through the thread and have a hundred thoughts buzzing round my head - will try to get some down intelligibly! A lot of great points have been made already.

That's great if he's not stressed in the new role - it means you don't have an urgent problem to solve. You have time to look around and take the best offer for both of you.

From my perspective, the baby issue would not be a big problem logistically. I moved to Africa when ds (my 3rd child) was 8wo, just after his first imms. Routine health stuff was easily available there - had we needed more, we would have been flown to Dubai! I was beyond tired with it all, but would've been here as well. Having small children makes it easier to get out and meet people and make friends - although I too tired of the vacuous women and baby conversations. DH was absent for 2 of the 4 births of our dcs - one because of circumstances and one because he prioritised other things close to the due date. I'm still rather about his attitude, but I myself was fine without him. That was actually the best birth of the 4! :o And you'll have family around for support if necessary?

My concern is much more for your and dh's relationship. When we moved overseas, my dh worked long hours as yours is expecting to. It's an old story in those circles: he threw himself into work, had to work long hours partly to keep his head above water in the new environment, met lots of interesting people, had nice social occasions which were really work-based so he didn't feel guilty. I meanwhile sat at home and seethed, resenting him and experiencing the normal pressures of raising small dcs with the additional challenges of knowing nothing about how to do things there and having no energy to find out. He thought I wasn't happy enough for him and didn't take enough interest in what he was doing; I thought he never had time even to speak to me or show an interest in the dcs and didn't care that I was miserable. I hated him; he was bored by me. That was the experience of our first year (after that, I was able to get a job - it didn't improve our marriage much, but it did boost my confidence for a while). And if you're thinking that's a good recipe for an affair, well, add in the normalising influence of the male-dominated culture(s) that dh is mixing with and yes, you're probably right. And he got close, I know (and maybe he did have one and I still haven't found out?). It happens A LOT in that way.

Gosh, that was therapeutic. :o Sorry for the essay/rant. It's just such a hard thing for a relationship to weather, especially if you're unhappy there and especially if you've just added a baby to the family unit - that's hard enough without an international move.

Tbh, in your situation there's just not enough reason to go. Maybe you could express regret at not looking into the implications of a move to Dubai or elsewhere earlier so that you could have discussed your reservations before a job that excited him came up. But it has to be a good move for both of you. For me, I was going to be at home with the dcs for a few years anyway: that was the one thing going for it, and the one thing that enabled me to relax and enjoy the last year there (once I'd found friends and finally settled into the church etc). If you're not looking for a career break, don't do it!

OP I have been thinking a bit more about your situation. If your issues about this job are truly about the birth / early months AND the job will definitely need him to be away for that time then you should agree he doesn't take it. But I am sceptical that you don't appear to have explored whether the employers could be flexible about that. So if the real reason that you are against the move is cos you will have to give up your job, then it's not fair on him to use the birth as an excuse when you'd have had no intention of going anyway.

Is it possible that you are being a bit inflexible about work when you could realistically take a career break that would coincide with your children's infancy so be very fulfilling anyway, whilst also letting your husband pursue his dream? Isn't pharmacy a pretty flexible profession?

Thank you Lost, Sir Charles, Rinkan and others for your comments - much appreciated.

I have actually just messaged DH this morning to say that I want to ensure we're exploring all options. I've asked whether the company would consider him not moving out there and taking up the post until July and also whether in that first couple of months whether he will be able to come home every couple of weeks. I have also asked whether he / they would consider me and the children staying at home and him coming home / us travelling over there for a few days every fortnight and how that would affect his tax situation. This last wouldn't be so drastic whilst I was on ML.

As for a career, pharmacy is a flexible profession but I have worked hard to get the role I have now. I don't routinely work as a pharmacist day to day (although I do still practise and wouldn't want to completely lose that). The bit of my job that I really enjoy is the line management of other pharmacists and developing them to be the best they can be. It has been recognised by various people senior to me that I have a particular skill in this and I am being recognised for it in terms of exceeding my performance plan this year and I found out last week that I have one an award for Best Field Leader in the South East and am being put forward for the next round. As a result of this, my boss has told me that on return from ML I will be looking at what I can do to get a prompt promotion. If I took a career break, this would not be the case as I would have been out of the loop too long. I would also have to fully relinquish my current role and on my return would only be given an equivalent role if there was one available. I know a colleague who took a career break 2 years ago and on his return was told there were no suitable roles at his level and so he is now working for me on my team and feeling very frustrated at his skills being wasted.

I would never ever live or visit Dubai, certainly not a place to bring up children with the way women are viewed. You can't even take codeine for a headache.

But China is ok? With its one child policy, human rights abuses, infanticide etc.

I wouldn't visit China if my parents didn't live there or would you suggest my children don't get to spend time with their Grandparents? I know people that have been imprisoned in Dubai for marijuana dust in their pockets and there's always the British woman whose children were ripped from her arms when she was sent back. Dubai is a place full of money and little else.

It seems to me that your DH has 'grass is greener' syndrome. He's unhappy with his job and so he's jumping at the chance to take this job in Dubai. Now, you know that he has wanted to work OS for a while but he is running away and my experience of moving OS to get away from current issues (his BP, possible depression), is that those problems follow you. A different location is just that, not a solution to existing issues.

I think, given that you only have until tomorrow to make this decision, and given that there are so many reasons for not going OS right now (your high-risk pregnancy, your job/career - which your DH hasn't addressed at all and seems unconcerned about from what you've said), that if it were me I'd say no. However, I might temper that (to hopefully mitigate the damage to your relationship), with saying that you aren't saying that you'll never consider an OS move - just that the timing is all wrong and you're being forced to rush into what is a huge and very important decision and you can't get the reassurances you need to be comfortable with making that decision with regard to this job, right now.

us travelling over there for a few days every fortnight

It's a 6-hour flight or something - do you REALLY want to do every two weeks with two children?????

OP, you've convinced me, he's a fool if he doesn't understand. Don't go and good luck, let us know how you get on.

Hi again, SES. Well, that's a quick turnaround for such a life-changing decision, only one week (by now only 1 more day) to decide.

I still think you should not go. As I've said, I've loved expat life and the children have thrived, but I have met enough thoroughly miserable people to know it's not for everyone.

But what worries me more is the entirely selfish nature of your DH's urge to go, despite potentially missing out on the birth of his second child, the possibility of not seeing either of his children for weeks on end, and his life partner being opposed to the move (and 28 weeks into a difficult pregnancy). He seems quite willing for you to sacrifice your career for his.

Every move we have done, we have entered into as a couple, having both agreed about the best time and the best place. We have turned down opportunities that did not suit us all as a family. And now that the children are beyond pre-school age, we'll be looking to return to the UK so I can work. But that's how it's supposed to work: a move everyone wants because it suits you all on some level.

Don't sacrifice your career. At least not now, and not for this job offer, and not with a ticking clock. You will regret it, and it won't keep your marriage together if you follow him out there and then resent the loss every day. If you want to go down the selfless route, you can do the "if you love somebody set them free" thing, and tell him to take the job if he wants but you simply cannot move out there fulltime. But then your marriage is in a serious place: you might find it hard to love somebody who wanted to be set free from you and your children.

I hope he'll sit down with you and try to find a way for both of you to have fulfilling careers, hopefully simultaneously, and in a place you both want to live.

God, this is really hard, and I wish you both the best.

But what worries me more is the entirely selfish nature of your DH's urge to go

Every move we have done, we have entered into as a couple, having both agreed about the best time and the best place

Yes, exactly that - butilikesalt put it all so much more eloquently than me!

Well DH never replied to my message. This evening he's made no reference to it and has been chatting about other stuff as normal. He has just headed off to bed early though for the second night in a row saying he's tired.

I wonder whether he's just reluctantly accepted that although he still wants the job, he won't take it. I'm not tempted to start another conversation at the moment as I think it would just stress me out too much and I'd frustrate him by ending up in tears!

Let's hope so, SES, but it does sound wise not to start a conversation about it yourself. You going to get an early night, too? Stress takes it out of you...

Thanks - yes I will head off soon.

Will see how the next few days goes and if it all blows over on the surface then I think I will make a concerted effort to find opportunities for me, DH and DS to spend more time together as a family. That doesn't happen a lot at the moment as I work Saturday mornings and DS and I go to church on Sunday mornings. DH generally gets on with house / garden jobs on Sat & Sun afternoons but if we can get some family time that would be good - even if it's the 3 of us going and walking the dogs together.

Ses ive just found this (links on phone temperamental!) my own opinion concurs with most... Dont go. It would likely be scary and isolating especially with O and DC2 being so young. Off to read rest of thread