DH offered a job in Dubai

[SESthebrave]

DH has often spoken about taking a job abroad. Initially I was clear that I wouldn't choose to do that but he would start trying to describe the detail when he hadn't received a concrete offer. In the end - about 3or 4years ago - I said to him that he knew how I felt but that I wouldn't be in a position to make a firm decision until he had a definite offer - ie salary, country, etc.
In the last 3-4yrs there have probably been about 10 specific jobs he has spoken about where they may be interested. These have all been in either Qatar, Dubai or Australia but have never resulted in a firm offer.

That is until today. On Monday DH mentioned he'd had an email about a job in Dubai. Suddenly today, there is an email with a firm offer.

There are a number of reasons why I don't want to move abroad, some of them I admit are selfish. My reasons are:

• DC2 is due on 27th May. I do not want to move before the baby is born or within the first 2-3 months after the baby is here. DH has said that he may have to move out there in that time and could be away for the birth.
• I have lived in the town we are in since I was 2yo and have family (my parents) and friends here as well as roots in the community through our church.
• my career is going well and I have built up good service with my company and have agreed with my boss that upon return from ML, I will be pushing for promotion. I could apply for a 1yr career break after ML but that would not guarantee me a job at my current grading and would write off thoughts of prompt promotion
• I'm worried I would be bored without work and my usual mummy friends.
• DS is 2.10yo and settled well at nursery with a good group of friends.
• I'm not sure I want for us all to be so far away from family. Neither my parents nor DH's parents enjoy the best of health and would not travel to visit us.

There are obviously advantages. These are:

• financially, we would have a good income tax free. Car and villa are provided with utilities paid.
• DH may not get another opportunity and he really wants to do it.
• DH would probably be looking for another job anyway within 12 months as he finds his current one stressful. Another job would likely mean a play cut in the current economic climate.

We've talked things through this evening but can't seem to find a solution we are both happy with. Please help!

I don't think the OP would be able to convert her UK qualifications into ones to work in that field in the Middle East, would she? (Or if she did, would have lost the years accrued in service here, plus potentially would have to repeat any experience or quals gained out there when returning here).

It's amazing the amount of vitriol and "don't do it" - all from people who never have done it!!!
I've just repatriated after 8 years as an expat, much of that in Dubai. I loved Dubai, but it is not right for everyone. If you do go, your success will depend on the attitude you go with and the plans you have made.

1. make sure that DH's package will cover all the essentials. Look on www.expatwoman.com - a goldmine of information
2. Be realistic about the career prospects for both of you and the risks and benefits. Boots has stores in Dubai - why not contact the relevant department in Nottingham and see if there might be opportunities.(I worked for Boots for 12 years and even managed to do some work for them in Russia) 3)Think what your exit strategy would be if DH lost his job. Can you manage to have a rainy day fund set aside. Can the package include repatriation costs.

It would probably be better if you could wait in the Uk till DC is born, but after that, if you are in Dubai, you can get masses of house help easily. There are good medical facilities (make sure you have health insurance as part of DH's package) and good schools when you need them - just get the DC's names down now even if you think you might leave before then!

You will miss your family and friends, but there's SKYPE and you'd be amazed how suddenly you have more friends than you ever dreamed off once you are living in the sun.

You'll have no problem making friends. Everyone has been through similar experiences and there are masses of clubs and activities for SAHM's. Women support one another strongly as nobody has family there. I made loads of long term friends, now scattered all over the world.

Someone above mentioned about a 1hr school run I think - not normal. We walked to school, except in the summer. Lots of people do now stay in the summer hols. Everywhere is air conditioned and every year there are more things to do.

You can have a great, easy and financially rewarding life in Dubai, provided you obey the law, don't get into debt and generally just be sensible. If you are ever going to move abroad, do it now whilst the kids are young. I've moved back and DH is still abroad because I needed to get DS settled in a UK school for GCSE and A levels.

Try and go see. The surest way to make the adventure fail is if DH drags you kicking and screaming.

Good Luck, whatever you decide. Any specific questions, do ask. There are several Dubai experts on here.

Good positive post mateys.

Would it be possible for your dh to ask the Company if you might be able to speak to some other wives / Mums of young children who are out there, and ask them what they miss, what they like, how hard they found it to adjust, what are the disadvantages ? The company must understand this is a big move for you as a whole family.

mateysmum - thank you that is a really constructive post. I will have a look at the website you mention.

I have started formulating a list of questions that I feel I need clarity on to discuss with DH. I have done this in the hope it will help me remain objective in our discussions. Earlier today, I struggled to think about it without becoming an emotional wreck and that is not constructive!

I think my biggest concerns are now about my career, lack of familiar support from friends and family and also about our exit plan (generally and emergency)

With my career, if I were to take longer than my ML off, I would struggle to get back in at the same level and whereas currently I am thinking about aiming for promotion after returning from ML, I would perhaps end up thinking about struggling to get back to the level I'm currently at.

The other thing I haven't mentioned is that DH has kind of already done this sort of thing on a smaller scale as he moved aged 16yo to the UK from Ireland. Now I know it's a much smaller scale but he is already away from what he would classify as his home and all his immediate family and has made a success of a move. I acknowledge that I am at the complete opposite extreme of that in having (other than uni) lived in and around the same town for nearly all my life. I'm trying to be objective and build into my thinking that just because I don't necessarily embrace change, that doesn't mean it's not a good idea.

BackforGood - yes, that's a good idea. I also really would want to go out there and see the place too. Even if this was just as a tourist for a long weekend.

Aaargh! Well our Saturday night out chat didn't really progress things and has left both of us feeling hurt and upset :(

I really tried to remain objective and looked at a couple of expat websites over the last couple of days and came up with a list of questions to work through. I'm sure we could both have handled things better this evening though.

We did go through my questions and DH had answers to some and not others which is fair enough. I was left feeling hurt though as at no point did DH acknowledge the complete change in career & life style that he is expecting from me and potentially he is looking at going over on his own for 2 months (probably June & July) to get things set up when we have DC2 arriving at the end of May. As a result, I ended up sitting in the pub with tears streaming down my face - not a good look and one that I regret.

DH on the other hand is feeling hurt because I'd told him that I didn't want to stand in his way and wanted to support him which he seemed to think meant that I would do it, even though I'd told him I had concerns and hesitations. With hindsight, maybe I could have phrased it better. He spoke about how unhappy he has been in the last year with work, how it has been affecting his health (his BP has not been well controlled although better now) and at times would drive into work in tears and feeling suicidal. I've told him I am happy for him to look at alternatives in this country and if it leaves us worse off financially, we will need to look at our outgoings. In fact at one point a couple of months ago, this is exactly what we were looking at but he decided to turn down the job on offer to take a new role in his current company keeping his Ts&Cs. He now reckons he is still not happy and taking another job in this country will mean that we will have to downsize our home. I've told him I would rather that than the move to Dubai.

I am aware that I am coming across very anti-Dubai and that is how I will be coming across to DH but at the moment I can only see 2 advantages to going - i) financial and ii) DH's happiness. Both important but I'm not sure it's significant enough for our finances and as much as DH's happiness is very important to me, there's no point if I end up as unhappy as I feel at the moment. I asked DH what the other advantages were but didn't get anything back.

I'm also concerned that there were a few things DH didn't seem to have answers or thoughts on. Firstly any other advantages other than those mentioned but also he'd not entertained the idea of us going out to see the place first and wasn't sure that would be possible. I really feel we are at polar opposites at the moment and we were both left in tears and DH could hardly look at me. He's gone to bed and I will head there soon. I just needed to offload!

I know I seem to be talking to myself but it's helping to get it out...

Another thing I found worrying is that he said that currently he would be expected to work a 6 day week out there and the company is looking to introduce a 6 days one week, 5 days the next pattern. That really doesn't help us have more family time though. He said a working day would be about 7am-6pm.

Do you get a sense of why he thinks moving to Dubai will make him happy? Does he have friends out there?

I can understand that he feels a move within this country would mean him cutting his income, and probably doesn't feel greatly cheered by the thought that yours might increase to compensate, even though this is pretty realistic. But does he truly think he will be happier simply if he is earning more money? Others have mentioned - and my family member's experience would back this up - that the job market is pretty precarious in Dubai. Which, with your income taken out of the equation, could be significantly more stressful than before.

Equally he needs to do something about his job situation, as it sounds intolerable for him. Did he not foresee this could happen when he decided to stay with the existing company?

It feels a little bit like he sees Dubai as an all-encompassing life raft you can all jump into. A way to earn more money and have a particular lifestyle without the need to downsize or compromise. And perhaps that is blinding him to the possibility that the same job in a different place will not actually be any better simply because it pays more - that you may be deeply unhappy with depriving yourself of your support network and with stepping away from your career. If he does see Dubai as the Great Escape, maybe you need to explore with him what he wants to escape from?

It feels like the whole idea hangs on the fact he can earn more money (but you cannot) and the belief that he will be happier than he is now. If he's very locked in to his feelings of desperation about his current work, this is understandable but it would make more sense for him to try and take some time off - or quit - and get his head together, rather than uproot you all when you have plenty of other life changes to manage.

Hmm sorry our posts crossed! So he would also have to work more hours for more pay? If he's already very stressed that could be very bad news. And six days a week doesn't leave a lot of time either for family or to play catch-up during busy periods.

If he really, truly wants to go, could he try it for a year whilst you stay in the UK? Not ideal but people do it.

Thanks for responding!

I'm not sure that DH going on his own will be very good for the family as a whole. Also suddenly realised that if DH moves out to Dubai (even for just a couple of months to set things up) just after DC2 arrives, that's a whole load of change for DS to deal with who will have just turned 3yo at that point. It's a big adjustment for a 3yo to suddenly have to share his parents but if one of his parents also disappears, I'm worried about the effects that could have on a confident, settled little boy.

Somehow, I need to have another constructive conversation with DH. Will try and sleep on it and allow tomorrow to be another day!

I think the effect on your DS of so much change is probably something your DH ought to be factoring in as well, though :( I suppose in his head it depends how he interpreted your earlier comments about being broadly supportive of a move.

The other thing to point out may be that he's only just made one career choice - to stay with the existing firm rather than take another offer. What happens if you've jacked everything in here and then he changes his mind after a few months out there?

Hope you manage to sleep - at least hopefully it's helping that you're communicating honestly with each other, even if the news for each of you isn't want you were hoping or expecting. There's no way to reach a fair resolution without going through this stage. So keep on talking and hopefully a way forward will emerge.

I like abroad, have done for 6 years, we came for DH's job. I love it, and am a huge fan of the whole life. (We do not live in Dubai or anywhere near it.)

In your position, I wouldn't do it. Wouldn't even consider it. This very much comes down to prioritising one career over another. I didn't really realise the extent to which this is true when we first left. I wasn't hugely happy in my job when we left, and I love travelling and learning languages and all that, so I'm okay with that. You won't be.

He is very much asking you to give up your ambitions to follow him to Dubai, a move you don't really want to make for a number of other family reasons. If you're not dead keen to travel and live in the Middle East, you'd be crazy to do this.

And if you get there and don't like it, you'll blame him. If you do like and then go back the UK in 2 or 3 or 8 years, and can't find a job, and have lost out on pension payments and promotions, you'll blame him. If you go and give up your career progression and then he runs off with another woman (this won't happen), you'll kill him.

Anyway, good luck to you both. It's a tough one, I know.

Sorry I didn't see the result of your chat with your DH. I feel terrible for your DH, of course, but I'd say to him very clearly that your decision is nothing to do with Dubai, per se.

I hope you two can work out another job he can find within the UK. Maybe even if he'd be happier retraining for another career? Poor man does sound in need of a major change, but dragging you and your DC into the abyss with him is not a good idea!

Real alarm bells ringing here at your DH's saying he would drive to his old job in tears and feeling suicidal. You say he still finds the new one too stressful. Having been in a stressful job that made me miserable I know this is hard, but you need to get him to break down exactly what it is about the jobs that is so bad- is it specific people, a specific project, or the generic demands of that type of job? Was he EVER happy in that field? If so, how did things get off track? If you can work that out and then compare to what the Dubai job offers (based on concrete facts, not a general grass-is-greener feeling) then that may help. Looking at what you say about loving your job, he may feel embarrassed to admit that he made wrong choices in his, a bit jealous that you made better choices and you may have difficulty empathising with him. Throw into that mix the basic idea that men feel more money =more success, and him being on the brink of the responsibility of a second child and his fear that he has messed everything up and needs to grab on to any solution (especially the sexy working abroad one ) may be clouding his judgment.

As others have said, unless he will earn 45k more then there is no net financial benefit in you giving up your job so he can take this one. But his masculine pride won't accept that logic (and my personal opinion is that that does not make him a Bad Person and can't be fixed by telling him to get over it).

It sounds like he may be a bit suffocated being on your home town. Perhaps he needs to find contract work abroad. Think about this -my DP's father was a merchant seaman. Worked away for 3 to 6 month stints doing a job he loved that paid fantastically. DP's Mum brought 3 of them up on her home town with her family around. DP says he missed his dad but the best thing was that when his dad was home he was around all day every day. DP's Mum said it was hard but the money really helped, there were a few fun trips when they could join him as a family and 35 years later they are a very happy retired couple with 3 very well adjusted adult children.

So maybe something like that could work for you, even of just short term so he gets it out of his system?

SESthebrave, where is your sense of adventure? Dubai is a great place to bring up kids. It's safe, the schools and healthcare are excellent, there is loads to do, it is easy to make friends... I think it would be a real shame if you missed this opportunity.

Rinkan - we did talk about his work stress before Christmas. It was predominantly around the way his company operated and particularly his line manager. They are a Spanish company and he struggled with the fact that they only seem to promote Spanish employees and a lot of their emails and communications are in Spanish. He did find a job with a different company on a lower salary which I fully supported him taking but when he handed his notice in with his current employer, they offered him this different role with a different line manager and he chose to take it and stay. Since then he has said that things are better but he still can't see him staying with them long term. He has a history of 15yrs+ in the construction industry and in the 7yrs I've known him has never talked about being unhappy at work.

Marie - I freely admit I don't have much of a sense of adventure but I would try and put that to one side if it weren't for the issues of DC2's arrival in May and the need for me to give up my career.

This is fast turning into more of a relationships thread...... :(

I've just tried speaking to DH again and told him that I'm worried if he is as depressed and stressed as he says and sounds. I told him I thought he should chat to our GP and that I'm not convinced a move to Dubai would automatically resolve all his issues or be right for the family as a whole.
He said he is no longer stressed in his job. His only worry is that he doesn't see him having a progressive career with his current company.

I said that he still seemed depressed and he said that's only as a result of me destroying his dreams. He feels that I've deceived him over a number of years. I've tried to explain that that was never my intention but that he'd never spoken so strongly about his dream to go abroad before. It was more a question of if the right opportunity came up, he would want to do it. I've never been enthusiastic about the idea but said that I wouldn't want to stand in his way and would want to support him. That is still the case - I just don't believe this is the right move for us. He thinks I should have just said that I would never want to move abroad but I never thought that would be fair without understanding the full situation.

Sorry for offloading on here but I've only got one RL friend that I've spoken to about this.

SES you can have the thread moved if you'd like - or indeed ask for us not to comment on the relationship aspect of the WWYD dilemma, please take whatever support you need from this.

It seems odd that after such a short time in a new post he has now concluded it offers no progression, but then perhaps he was fed a line by the company in order to keep him? Has he considered learning Spanish if this is perceived as a barrier? (I'm prejudiced because I speak Spanish so this seems kinda obvious to me :) ) Why has his stress apparently melted away in the new role?

What about you? Does he accept any of your reasons for being reluctant to make this move right now? He seems very, very focused on this one goal which, to be frank, seems to be all about him. Fair enough, maybe it's 'his turn' if you've been living where you want since the marriage began, and you admit you have been maybe less than completely clear about the circumstances in which you'd consider a move abroad. But that's not exactly the same as destroying his dreams Did he not dream of having a wife and children too?

Are your skills transferable? Are you qualified to work out there? Is there any way you could go on a reconnaisance visit?

if it weren't for the issues of DC2's arrival in May and the need for me to give up my career.

We have maternity hospitals in Dubai, and pharmacy jobs.

Tbh, I don't mind what gets commented on as what I value is that there is hopefully a cross section of people on MN who would help me see different perspectives.

When we first got together, DH was living 10mins from his job and I was living 45 mins. We did have a debate about where to live and I expressed preference for staying in my home town. DH decided the fairest thing to do would be to live exactly half way between our two jobs. He then explained that this actually was my home town, so we house hunted, found a place and moved in together.

As for learning Spanish, his company did provide him with weekly lessons when he first joined but after 6-8 weeks he chose not to continue as he was too busy with his job.
He believes that the company will not promote him as he is not Spanish.

Marie - I've asked DH about post natal care that we would be eligible for under the insurance package but he doesn't know as yet. I also worry about the fact he would be away getting things set up for a couple of months just after the birth of DC2 and the impact that would have on him, me, the baby but in particular DS. He will suddenly have to share with DC2 and his Dad will disappear at the same time - not great timing.
As for pharmacy jobs, my qualifications are not recognised in Dubai.

I Don't personally know of anyone who works in construction working a six day week...(other than labourers but that's a whole other can of whoop ass...)

I moved to Dubai as a trailing spouse ( and am a Lady that lunches and does a bit for Charideee) Dh was travelling to the ME constantly before we moved, so emigrating meant we were actually together as a family( and even then i wasn't keen and had a hissy fit at the airport and refused tospeak to him the whole flight over)

Vastly different

Moving is stressful
a new child is stressful

In the circs you've described I would not go purely for your career prospects.
and it's unfair and selfish of him to put it all on you

Your dh sounds like he's having a mid life crisis tbh .. Maybe the impending arrival of number 2 has freaked him out but he certainly need to get a grip

...destroying dreams FFS ! Dubai is not the land of milk and honey.

I did ask also about a visit to see the place before making a firm decision but that thought hadn't seemed to have entered his head. I offered to check with the MW at my next appointment on Tues if they are still happy for me to fly.

I agree about the worry and feelings of responsibility with DC2 on the way. He has said in the past how he knows it sounds chauvinistic but that he feels that as the man he should be providing the best for his family, and the best seems to equal money. Mid-life crisis - possibly.