DH offered a job in Dubai

[SESthebrave]

DH has often spoken about taking a job abroad. Initially I was clear that I wouldn't choose to do that but he would start trying to describe the detail when he hadn't received a concrete offer. In the end - about 3or 4years ago - I said to him that he knew how I felt but that I wouldn't be in a position to make a firm decision until he had a definite offer - ie salary, country, etc.
In the last 3-4yrs there have probably been about 10 specific jobs he has spoken about where they may be interested. These have all been in either Qatar, Dubai or Australia but have never resulted in a firm offer.

That is until today. On Monday DH mentioned he'd had an email about a job in Dubai. Suddenly today, there is an email with a firm offer.

There are a number of reasons why I don't want to move abroad, some of them I admit are selfish. My reasons are:

• DC2 is due on 27th May. I do not want to move before the baby is born or within the first 2-3 months after the baby is here. DH has said that he may have to move out there in that time and could be away for the birth.
• I have lived in the town we are in since I was 2yo and have family (my parents) and friends here as well as roots in the community through our church.
• my career is going well and I have built up good service with my company and have agreed with my boss that upon return from ML, I will be pushing for promotion. I could apply for a 1yr career break after ML but that would not guarantee me a job at my current grading and would write off thoughts of prompt promotion
• I'm worried I would be bored without work and my usual mummy friends.
• DS is 2.10yo and settled well at nursery with a good group of friends.
• I'm not sure I want for us all to be so far away from family. Neither my parents nor DH's parents enjoy the best of health and would not travel to visit us.

There are obviously advantages. These are:

• financially, we would have a good income tax free. Car and villa are provided with utilities paid.
• DH may not get another opportunity and he really wants to do it.
• DH would probably be looking for another job anyway within 12 months as he finds his current one stressful. Another job would likely mean a play cut in the current economic climate.

We've talked things through this evening but can't seem to find a solution we are both happy with. Please help!

Don't go. It'll mess up your career, it'll mean you end up dealing with a toddler and a baby away from any family or friends who could help you, and you could end up resenting your DH for ever. Why would you give up a secure job (yours) so that you can go off chasing an insecure one (his)?

re job security .. It's non existent, forget about English rules on giving notice or consultations on redundancy.Construction industry is especially perilous, projects are cancelled ( seemingly on a whim)

Re Ops work

the law has changed very recently ( has n't been widely publicised ) on part time work ( previusly it was illegal) check into this carefully if you're not after full time.

Twooter, I had a lovely walk along the beach this morning. For six months of the year it's fantastic ( and I do spend July and August back in Europe visiting friends and family as it is far too hot thEn but to say no nice walks is wrong)

I have lived in the UAE for 5 years and I love it. Works very very well for us as a family and is brilliant when the DC are young.

There have been loads of threads on MN recently about the place, most of MN seem to hate it and it gets a regular slating but it is a clean, safe place with excellent schools, lots of young families and very "outdoorsy" in the winter months.

It is hot in the summer but you get used to it - we no longer return home for the summer months and I don't find it hard although I do spend most of my time in doors, much like I would during the winter months in the UK. But the winter months are great we spend loads of time out doors: camping, cycling, sailing and just hanging out at the beach.

On the downside you almost certainly won't find work as a pharmacist, it is not an area where British qualifications are particularly desired - I have a friend who is qualified but nearly all the jobs are done by indian expats who are far cheaper. Although your DH will probably earn 50% more (tax free of course) construction remains extremely unstable in the region and people are still losing their jobs with alarming regularity.

labootin I don't think you are right that part time work was illegal.

I know lots of women (drs, lawyers and pilots amongst others) that work part time hours for both local and international companies and also government.

Sara.. I was referring specifically to the ops situation is she were to come to the UAE under her husbands sponsorship( I had a quick google and it changed on 1 Jan 2012) which I am assuming she would have to.

That last sentence made absolutely no sense sorry...I would imagine the lawyers drs pilots etc are there under there own sponsorship/ work permit iykwim, the OP wouldn't be.

write pros and cons down

if don't take job what will happen?

have you raised misgivings with him?

if you knew he's was looking overseas you knew you'd relocate away from "mummy" friends and family?you have slightly bring aviodant, knowing he's looking actively but only really thinking about it now he has firm offer. frankly that discussion should have occurred at start and ongoing

have you been able talk to anyone who has lived Dubai?
plenty mn folk have

I agree this needs to be collaborative given you need to plan and manage both careers, and your career doesn't need to take back seat to his

Might be worth reading this? www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html

This article is all about the dark side, and I've got no experience of Dubai personally. But in my line of work we encounter Dubai job offers a lot and I'm not saying it is always like in this article, but you do have to be very careful. Make sure you have fully informed yourselves about the job for DH - tax, job security, what happens if DH resigns, what happens if DH is made redundant, whether there is any possibility you might have any debts, etc. Go through the contract with a fine-tooth comb. Plus of course you need to consider the impact on your career - and not just your career now, but also further-away things like the impact on your pension if you stay out of work for a few more years (and his pension, on return to the UK). Even if DH took a pay cut in the UK, you could still end up better off in the end. I would order pension forecasts.

If your DH really wants to do it - and he obviously does want to, or he wouldn't have already mentioned ten other jobs - you could consider the year out, then returning to the UK while he works out there for the remaining two years (hard on your relationship though), or saying no to Dubai but yes to Australia or somewhere else abroad that would be better for you.

On the positive side, moving abroad can be great - I live abroad and love it.

labootin but if she got a job whether part time or full time she would be sponsored by her employer so it wouldn't make a diffence if she initially went out on her DHs sponsorship. Unless I am completely missing your point, which is entirely possible

weissbier that independent article is one of the sloppiest, laziest bits of journalism around. The "facts" are inaccurate and it contains so many misrepresentations it is laughable. Not saying there aren't serious issues to be addressed but many are/have been

Sara you're right of course( re the sponsorship and the indie article) I was out at Barasti last and am feeling slightly hazy......

that's not wholly accurate representation of Dubai in the article
it's a bit alarmist

"One of us will get what we want and the other won't."

Look at it like this - you've lived in the same place all your life, so you have had what you want. Give him a spell of what he wants.

Barasti eh?! In that case you are forgiven

It's not just him .v. you, there are the dc. One is already happy and settled so it affects them too.

It doesn't sound like there is anything at all in it for you. The only thing in it for him is that he WANTS to go.

For you all as a family it sounds to me like there is a lot more to keep you here. Could he go for six months or travel or something?!

Just quickly checking in whilst on way to work. Am grateful for the replies, links and help to see different perspectives.

One point to clarify though is that this isn't as simple as me saying I don't want to live somewhere different (although I have admitted that I do selfishly feel this). If that's all it was, I would go. It is the fact that we need to think about how this affects my career - as well as his - and the family unit as a whole.

Quite.

One day the dc will be growed, and you will regret your non-career...

2 careers need to be managed yours and his

I dont know about Dubai at all but have had the experience of living and working abroad. My take on it is that when we were moving we talked to lots of people who had experience. Lots of people had moved, lots of people hadnt. Two things which struck me:

• no one we spoke to who had given it a go regreted the experience even if it hadnt worked out
• the people who hadnt moved always had a reason - it was the wrong time for them, the kids, the cat, whatever.

Living somewhere completely different is a huge life experience. You only get one life.

There is NO WAY I would do this if I were you.

My DH is in a related field - job security in Dubai is perilous. This isn't a good time to put your eggs in the 'overseas tax free salary' basket. You could end up on your arses.

There is nothing in this for you and you will damage your career badly. Your career should not be less important than his - especially to you.

You're in the middle of having your babies and being on mat leave. I can't think of a worse time to leave your social and family network and start the expat thing. Sure, you could do it - I'm sure you're not afraid at all! - but how miserable to have to spend these wonderful early years away from everyone else who will love your babies! Grim.

On top of all that - Dubai? I'd love to live abroad for a while - but not there! And you can't work. This is asking you to put your life on hold completely whe he does this. Only you know what kind of pressure that will put on your relationship.

But do you not think that those who go generally don't regret it because they've discussed it and decided it's right for them.
We need to decide whether the impact on my career and the imminent arrival of DC2 are reasons big enough not to go.

I would normally say "go" to something like this, but in your case it looks like your husband is basically forcing you to give up your career, in pursuit of something very insecure for himself!

So what happens if you move out there and the work dries up? I've read of cases in the UAE where people are made redundant and put on a plane to the UK within the week!

You'd have no income, little chance of getting back onto the career ladder where you left off and you'd no longer have (or be able to pay for) a home in the UK!

Sounds very risky to me :(

Hi Ses, I've been thinking about this and reading the other replies.Its a really tough one and really complicated by your imminent arrival of DC2.

I was in a similar situation with an option to take a 3 year role in the Philippines. It was different as a) I wasnt pg and b) it supported my career- but not necessarily DH's though he was very keen to live abroad for a while so was keen to go.. it was me that couldnt decide. I felt pressured to decide yes because he was so keen. For me I wanted to have another child and didnt want to wait 3yrs to do so and didnt want to have another one abroad. After a lot of reflection (it took me c. 2 months) - I got my head sorted and wanted to go, then the role had gone- I was (and DH more so) disappointed... which suprised me hugely.

When I consider why I was disappointed, I think it would have been a great time in life to do a stint abroad. DC still young enough and not involved in significant education- later on once at near secondary school time its harder to move about IMO. Friends could visit and what a great experience to look back on in later life.

Im sure you are doing all this but, in your shoes I would try to list out feelings about each of the issues. Your career, DS being settled, having a new baby so you can elimnate the things that dont matter or can be worked around so you can get to the crux of what is stopping you. E.g. look at nursery options, maybe investigate with work the impact of having an absence of 3 yrs? it might not lead to an answer but might help in the decision process. Your DH should do the same about what is stopping him finding job options in the UK.

Consider the plus points too- lots of time to spend with DS and new DC without having to worry about return to work after maternity leave, more disposable income- could the financial benefits allow you to work less when you return?

Another thing I would think about is the impact on both of you of being one who 'doesnt get what they want'. How would your DH react to disappointment, regret of not taking offer. What are his options to get over it/ around it. Equally, how would you feel about going- what are the options to help you 'get over it' eg. having baby and going later, talking to people who've been and had good experiences, look at options for holidays in surrounding area, plus points that would attract family to visit.

Sorry I've written an essay but I can empathise having been there so recently...

happy to talk any time x GBL xx

Another thing, if he said the job was in Aus- would you be keener due to options to work etc?

Could be compromise point. ie you'd be happy (maybe!) to go abroad but it needs to be somewhere more westernised/ where you can work.

It would buy you time and keep him positive....

SES I think that the people I knew who had moved abroad for short or long times all had a bit of a pioneer mentality. A willingness to try it out and see what happened. I know that we didnt have long to think about it (about 3 months from first interview to closing the doors on the removal lorry)

Regarding your career, what is the big impact? How much impact will taking time out really have? Could it also be an opportunity for you to undertake further study?

Regarding children, check out medical, educational social facilities. Living abroad was a great experience for my children.

Could you sit down with your DH and really discuss what are the must haves, nice to haves and must not haves for you? It may be that Dubai isnt the right place for you but there are a lot of places in the world.

A career expat colleague had an interesting insight. He said that they found integration into very different countries and cultures easier than into more familiar countries and cultures. The reason he gave for this was expectation. If you live in the UK you expect say Indonesia to be very different. You are ready for it. If you live in the UK you expect say the Netherlands to be recogniseable and mostly similar. You are then wrong-footed by how different it in fact is.

Good luck with your decision.

You need to be honest as to how important your job is to you and your family. If you want to return to work as a pharamacist then going to UAE is going to be a negative move for you.

If you could see yourself taking a break and perhaps returning to your career at a later date or taking a different path then it could be the best move you ever make.

I gave up a great career shortly before we went to the UAE, not because we were going but having tried the work/commute/nanny juggle with 2 DC we as a family couldn't do it, shortly after I quit DH took a job and we jumped in both feet.

It has worked well for us, I have spent the pre school years at home with plenty of help. All my neighbours have been in the same situation and I have built up a fabulous support network and very quickly I met forever friends. My older DC are now at school and although I still have one at home I have returned to work, having been offered the sort of opportunity that I would never have received in the UK.

It required a bit of lateral thinking - my qualifications are UK centric but it has worked for us and my career had now surpassed that which I would have achieved in the UK even if I hadn't taken the time out that I have. I feel that I have had the best of both worlds.

The lack of job security is an issue but less so than it was when we first came, jobs after all are no longer secure in the UK. Many of those we have known who were made redundent here quickly secured other work.

Having said that you need to want it : no move ever works if it is half arsed.