Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

Physically deformed man in cafe upset kids.

124 replies

hairylipsquid · 12/01/2011 19:01

I met some other mums and their pre-schoolers in a cafe. After we'd sat down I noticed that a group from a local day care centre for special needs adults were sat at the adjacent table with their carers.

One of the men had a severely deformed head and face (I have to admit it did take me back somewhat). He seemed like he was trying to smile at the kids and made grunting noises like he was trying to say hello, bless him.

The 2 and 3 year-olds in the group (mainly the girls interestingly, the boys tended to just stare) started to scream and cry and say things like 'scary man mummy'. The mums pretty quickly whisked them out of the cafe.

I stayed put but had to answer some pretty loud questions from DS like 'what is the matter with that man?'. (Cue 'some people are born different', 'remember when you watch 'Something Special' conversation.)

It made me feel sad (not only for that poor man although I'm not sure he really understood what was happening) that the knee-jerk reaction had been to remove the children out of sight of the 'scary man'. Or did they do the right thing as their pfb's were being distressed by him?

What would you have done?

OP posts:
sarah293 · 13/01/2011 08:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Ormirian · 13/01/2011 08:04

" Or did they do the right thing as their pfb's were being distressed by him?" They did the right thing because the man might well have been distressed by them!

Poor man Sad

overthemill · 13/01/2011 08:07

Read original post but not all replies.

I would explain to kids that man had something that made him look different and he couldn't talk like most people do. Would explain that it might look scary but it isn't anything to fear. Would also say that lots of people are like this. Also add in 'it isn't catching'

Woud try to sensitively smile, say hello to man (not being patronising tho but if he's trying to say hello, say it back)

FWIW, my dd has severe eczema and used to look dreadful (like peeling skin, blotches etc)and when little (like 2.5) we were asked to leave a cafe by an (old) customer as we were putting her off her coffee, and also it wasn't fair for everyone to have to look at her. Also she felt sorry for me. We stayed put....

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 13/01/2011 08:38

i think the OP is a bit fishy, as, as people have pointed out, children don't tend to notice physical differences and say things like "scary man".

silverfrog · 13/01/2011 08:49

honestly, Fanjo, my dd2 does.

and she has been around disruptive disability all her life (dd1 is severe ASD)

she gets very bohtered by it. she has watched Somethign Special every day of her life (no exaggeration), we talk about it and I try to explain.

but hse does notice (althoguh she hasn't noticed Cerrie on Cbeebies Hmm - maybe because TV is distancing?), and she is bothered. mostly it seems to be because she is struggling with her concept of "normal" - and it really worries her when things do not conform to her knowledge of the world.

having said that, she can be a very timid little girl anyway, and as likely to shrink back form the nice old lady saying hello (as that is also not usual according to her - she is not expecting strangers to speak to her) as she is from a person with disabilities approaching her/being sat across form her.

I think it would be unlikely that she would be distressed enough that we woudl have to leave, and as she has got older, and more able to comprehend explanations, we are getting more towards a time where we can say "not everyone is the same, some people have difficulties doing X, just like dd1 has difficulites doing Y" etc (dd2 will be 4 in Feb)

FreudianSlipIntoMyLaptop · 13/01/2011 09:13

"we were asked to leave TumbleTots because some mum claimed seeing dd upset her toddler"

OH MY FUCKING GOD that is awful :( Angry

As are some other stories... Never seen the ones that were MN threads but am shocked at the ignorance of some people it's the 21st century FFS.

OP - I would have done what you did. DD is 3.6 and is starting to ask questions (well and truly in the WHY phase) and hasn't mastered subtlety yet - but I'm starting to teach her that it's rude to stare or point.

I think it would have been quite hurtful to leave. Surely it's preferable to answer questions sensitively than to act all scared. I would expect the man is quite used to people having to 'explain' his appearance to children :(

As an aside, is that Something Special programme good then? I've never seen it.

Acanthus · 13/01/2011 09:29

Fanjo - most if not all children would notice a deformed face and head . And many would be scared, why else are masks such a popular thing in many cultures? The face is key to a child's perception.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 13/01/2011 11:32

OK, I stand corrected.

I am not very up on what NT kids notice, tbh, my DD wouldn't notice if someone had three heads!

Blu · 13/01/2011 11:40

There were the occasional small children who would react badly to DS when he had loads of pins going through his leg - and in almost every case, had the parent employed the gently encouraging GAFG technique via some simple education and a firm reminder that it is rude to comment / stare / react badly to anyone based on how they look, then it could have been dealt with. However, it rarely was. Angry

You can't determone what response a child will have to anything the first time they encounter it - but you can have a bloody effective influence on what happens the second time. And it was parents who generally centred on ther child's responses and needs and liberty to be 'upset' who did nothing at all to influence what happened the next time.

MommyMayhem · 13/01/2011 11:44

When my DD was small, she was inclined to ask questions about people all the time in a very loud voice. Once we were on the tube, and this huge black guy got on with a pink dummy in his mouth. DD looked at him and I thought "here we go". But she didn't say anything, just stared. Then about 6 months later, she said, "mummy, why did that man have a baby's dummy in his mouth?"

MommyMayhem · 13/01/2011 11:46

... sorry, posted in haste. To the OP, you did the right thing staying. Sometimes we have to put other people's feelings before our own and our DCs. Also, by removing the DC, you would be validating their fear, I believe. Staying and saying like "some people are just different" is the right move, I think.

iskra · 13/01/2011 11:54

2 year old DD walked past a line of leprosy sufferers begging at a temple (not in the UK obviously) & stopped dead in her tracks to stare & ask "got poorly hand? Why? That man got poorly hand? No nose?" etc... She seemed intrigued rather than distressed.

Blu, what's the GAFG technique? (haven't read all the thread, apologies if it's dealt with elsewhere)

Hullygully · 13/01/2011 11:56

I don't believe the op. I have never ever ever heard children of that age screaming and crying because of someone's appearance.

pagwatch · 13/01/2011 11:58

Wilhemina

As you seem genuinely to want to understand why your comments upset people can I take a few minutes to respond to you. In particular the responses you addressed to me.

An adult with learning difficulties will not be desperately likely to stroll into a library, remove an age appropriate book and sit quietly. My son( to use an example) adores the toddler section of the library as, aged 14, he still adores Disney films and things like pingu. When he initially enters the library he will often be so overwhelmed with excitement that he has to calm himself by putting his hands over his ears and wandering or sitting.
He is not obliged to remove a book in order to be legitimately using the facilities. It may happen that he will be too overwhelmed to choose.

You seem in your comments to view the adults looking at and lifting books as some kind of evidence that they were legitimately in the childrens section. With respect, that is none of your business. It is a public library and it is not fir you to determine whether an adult without a child is a cause for attention or concern in the childrens section.
(I am sure that you are not going to fall into the staggeringly thick group on mumsnet that view any adult alone around children a rampaging pedophile).

As for the child who has only been alive three short years.. I view our responsibility to that child to create in them a confidence that the world is broadly safe and interesting, and to give them confidence and independence as soon as possible. A child may be startled but I would hope that we as parents can reassure them and do so without encouraging them to the view that their irrational fear is fine.

A terrified thre year old needs cuddles and support but when their fear is dissipated then persuading them to get a grip is not unreasonable.

Whilst I enjoy your attempts to infer that I am a scary indifferent mother I am not. And whilst you see my determination that my toddler is not overly wimpy as bad, I see your view that a man with sn needs to feel uncomfortable in the pursuit of one of what are probably very few pleasurable pastimes in order that your 3 year old does not experience baseless anxiety, somewhat selfish and indulgent.

nobodyisasomebody · 13/01/2011 11:59

When ds was very small he saw a man with a very noticable disabilityy. He asked some very loud and embarrasing questions.

After speaking to ds I went over to the man in question and explained that ds was very nosy and prone to talking in a loud voice and I was sorry if he had caused offence.

The man seemed to appreciate this approach.

I would have stayed too and tried to communicate my apologies to the group concerned.

pagwatch · 13/01/2011 12:00

Hully,

Ds1 cried ' my eyes my eyes, oh the humanity' when he walked in on me getting out of the shower. He assures me that he remains traumatised

pagwatch · 13/01/2011 12:01

I need to copywriter the GAFG technique, don't I?

Hullygully · 13/01/2011 12:02

Funny how two and three year olds don't mind big purple and green creatures etc, but don't like "different" human beings. I don't buy it. Still.

Hullygully · 13/01/2011 12:03

Pag, yeah but that's fair (DS).

Woss GAFG?

MommyMayhem · 13/01/2011 12:03

I think it is very often the mothers communicating their disgust to their children.

pagwatch · 13/01/2011 12:05

He did have a point to tell the truth.

Gafg is further up when I posted that a scared child should be gently encouraged to get a fucking grip...

Hullygully · 13/01/2011 12:06

I had a very horrid moment with my SIL a while ago when she told me (and other fam members)that she had been in MacD's (sic) with her toddler and baby and a person with SN at the next table had tried to give the baby chips. She was horrified because "you don't know where their hands have been."

I am ashamed to say that I was so horrified that I simply left the room rather than say anything (we don't get on terribly well anyway), but yes, you can certainly see whenre the dcs attitudes would come from.

Hullygully · 13/01/2011 12:07

yy to gafg

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 13/01/2011 12:07

I would gave gently encouraged her to get a fucking grip Grin

My thoughts exactly, Pag.

MommyMayhem · 13/01/2011 12:12

Pagwatch, loving 'GAFG' Grin