Child neglect? Should I report it?

[Toffeefudgecake]

Have twice met a little girl (7) on her own in a local playground attached to some flats. The first time she was with her four-year-old sister. The second time she was on her own. On neither occasion did she or her sister have an adult with her. She became very attached to me and my son (4) and we spent a long time with her. She was cold so I lent her my cardigan to wear. She told me that she was allowed to play out alone till 9pm.

On the first time, I left her and her little sister playing alone in the playground, which went against all my instincts. On the second occasion (when she was alone), I walked her back to her flat because she said she was frightened of going up the stairs on her own. I heard her mother greet her as she walked in. However, as I walked away, I saw her come out again.

She was a sweet little thing and I felt very protective of her and worried that she was vulnerable. I think she knows a lot of people in the flats, but even so she did seem very exposed. Also, she attached herself very quickly to me and even sat on my lap. Obviously, I am no risk, but someone else might be.

I don't know what to do. I don't think she is the only child allowed to play out alone at such a young age in this environment. I don't agree with it myself, but lots of parents around there seem to do it. I don't want to mess up her family life, but I don't want a child to be so vulnerable either.

What would you do? And if there are any social workers or other childcare professionals out there, what would you advise? I know which school she goes to, incidentally, so I was wondering if I should approach them.

i would phone the police.

i think I agree with custardo

does seem odd. but when you say :
"I don't think she is the only child allowed to play out alone at such a young age in this environment. I don't agree with it myself, but lots of parents around there seem to do it. "

then thta suggests thta you see plently of other young children also playing out alone. what does this tell you ?

is this a very rough area ?
what do yuo think all the families would do if you reported them ?

Oblomov - There are a lot of people there living on benefits who are struggling. I have seen exceptionally young children (4ish) allowed to walk up to the local shops on their own, often still dressed in their pyjamas or nighties. You sometimes hear mothers shouting and swearing at their children - it is very sad.

Puppymonkey and Oblomov - I have to say I hadn't considered calling the police. I only thought of calling social services.

Does anyone know what would happen if I called the police or social services? Has anyone else ever reported a case of neglect or similar?

The guide I go by is whether, if I died and my children were being cared for by someone else, whether I'd be happy with them doing this sort of thing or being treated like that.

She's a vulnerable child and she runs a risk of being picked up by someone who will treat her badly.

I'm not convinced anything happens as a result of a complaint, to be honest, but if you didn't, then could you live with yourself? And getting a social worker to know about it is quicker if it's done via the police.

I don't know what to say. I mean if it is classed as neglect then the whole neighbourhood is guilty. this is not a one off, you are talking about many families. all doing this. all the time.
and if you got them all together. what would they say to these allegations.

maybe talk to ss. about the families in general.

i am unsure of what to do really.

I'm on the side of phoning the police, she's 7 years old. She's clearly not old enough to be out alone and her parents are totally negligent, she is also far too young to have responsibility for a 4 year old.

If I saw the girl again, I'd phone the police, day or night.

I've been in a similar situation. I left work about 7pm, walked back to my car which was in a service road by some loading bays for big, out of town stores, staples, currys, that kind of thing.

There was a little girl of about 7 playing by herself right by my car so I asked her if her mummy knew where she was. She said yes, so I asked where she lived, and she kind of pointed to sone nearby houses the other side of the retail park.

I told her it probably wasn't a good idea to play there as there were lorries coming and going and she might get hurt. Not to mention anyone could gave snatched her and noone would have known about it.

She kind of wandered off to play then, so I called the police and told them what had happened. I saw a police car heading into the service road as I pulled out, so I guess they took it pretty seriously as they turned up so quickly.

So I would suggest calling the police non emergency number, they'll probably send a pcso round to check on the little girl.

This is a difficult situation to judge from reading your post. How far away are the flats? Could the mother have been watching? Is she really allowed out till 9pm?

I agree that it's wrong from what you say, but many people sadly think that this is acceptable. I remember being allowed to my local park, just around the corner from my house at that age, but there was always a few of us, and some older children too.

I think I would be concerned, but I don't know what I would do until I saw the situation first hand.

I would probably go with your gut instinct. If it's nothing to worry about, then ss won't take it further. But if it is, then you will have done the right thing.

i would be a friendly neighbour, and chat to her mom.

Different people have different ideas of what is negligent.
I have a communal garden behibd my house. only accessed fromt he houses that back onto it. there is a locked gate thta allows the council in to mow. was discussing witht eh woman from the council the other day. she said "but you don't let your children out there alone, unsupervisded. becaseu thats neglect". So i told her thta i did infact allow them alone.
But I don't think it is neglect. I have considered the situation carefully. I can be in th garden hanging out the washing, i can see them and hear them ds1(7) and ds2(2). they potter in and out, every few minutes. i never leave them unwatched for more thna 5-10 minutes. i do not fear a peadophile stealing them, becuase if that were to happen it would be thta they wanted to . same as breaking into my house and stealing them from their beds.

So all i'm saying is the definition of neglect is not set in stone.
if loads of people let their children wander up tot he shops in their nighties at aged 4, i too would think this was not acceptable.
but in these cases you could get as many people saying it is defintiely negelct, as mnay could argue thta they don't beleive it is.

as i said before., if it is neglect, the whole community is doing it. and thus i am not sure you are able to make much comment if all of a community do something thta you don't agree with. what grounds do you have ?

The definition of neglect or negligence should not be set by the lowest common denominator in society. 7 year old children would be considered "home alone" if left inside a house without adult supervision. I don't see why they wouldn't be classed as alone when in a public place.

Oblomov, your garden sounds very different to a public park.

is is different alouise ?
and if it is should it be ?
i am just not sure. i don't know enough about the law on these issues.

this is the second time i've been accused of neglect. the first was very serious. this is not so. just a verbal comment. but i really find it offensive. i know thats petty.
but neglect is a very serious issue. so actually saying that someone is abusive/neglectful/negligent. i think that is quite serious, actually.
who are these people that accuse someone, making these acquasations ?

and alouise, i've got a question for you. we are off camping next week. is it 'home alone' when my son, ds1(6.6) is actually alone. and goes off riding his bike , without me, then. on the campsite.
he is technically alone. becasue i am not with him.
whats the diferecne between that and the park incident you refer to ?

Where I used to live (and this wasn't in the UK so maybe different) we had huge communal gardens and play parks bewteen our houses. Most 4/5 year olds were allowed out on their own with a minimum of supervision and certainly 7 year olds would be out cyling/skating for hours with no parental supervision.

No one batted an eyelid and certainly no one would have though the wre being neglectful but then we all lived in £1 million+ homes.

This seems to smack of not liking how the "lower" classes live. There is nothing wrong in playing unsupervised or mothers being on benefits. The child being scared to return home alone or being cold may be an issue. OP you need to examine what it is you are actually concerned about before you do anything.

Oblomov... I completely disaggree with your logic there. Just because an entire community does something doesn't make it alright. If an entire community was openly abusing children would you say no one should comment or act upon that?

For what it's worth my children play outside without constant supervision but our situation is vastly differant... we're in the middle of the coutryside, surrounded by fields. I can hear them at all times and can hear any car approaching from a mile off. They know the limits of where they're allowed to wander and they know if they see someone approaching to run and get me immediatly.

I don't class that as anything like what the OP describes... we used live in flats and my children would never set foot outside the door without me or dp with them.

I agree with the posters who've suggested ringing the local police station next time you see her out... her readiness to befriend complete strangers is a worrying sign coupled with the fact that she's constantly out alone or in charge of a 4 year old and I think there could be far more to this situation than simply a mother who's a bit lax with supervision.

Oblomov I have categorically not accused you of neglect.

I said your garden sounds very different to the public park in the op.

7 year old children should not be left alone in a public park, cold and nervous of returning home. They are also nowhere near capable of supervising a 2 year old in a public area.

The child in the op sounds very, neglected. How many times has a Mother on mn questioned her own judgement in leaving a 12 year old at home for 30 minutes? Loads! 7 is too young to be home alone and too young to be playing in a public park, cold and unsupervised.

So its ok for children to do this in the countryside or leafy suburbs ..just not on council estates

Oblomov - alouise wasn't accusing you of neglect as she was saying that your garden sounded very different to (ie safer than) a public park. If you can keep an eye on your children in the communal garden whilst you are in your own garden, then I think most people, including me, would think that's fine. I'm sorry you have been accused of neglect before and I'm sure it has made you very sensitive to it, but alouise wasn't being personal.

Ladysybil - I would chat to her mum if she was in the playground with her daughter, but, of course, she wasn't. I did not feel I should walk into her flat uninvited. She may have been annoyed that I had brought her daughter back and she may have felt that I was interfering and judging her (which i am, up to a point).

Redonherhead - the mother could not see her child at all from where she was. And there were no older children keeping an eye on her. I only have the little girl's word that she is allowed to stay out until 9pm, so I don't know if that is accurate or not. But I don't think she should have been out unsupervised with her little sister during the day, let alone in the evening.

Morejuice - it's very useful to find out what happens and that the police responded so promptly. I suppose this might make the parents think twice about letting her have so much freedom at such a young age - not to mention allowing her to take her four-year-old sister with her.

Thank you all for your views. The consensus does seem to be that I should phone the police next time I see the little girl and her sister out unsupervised.

no, no. i never thought YOU did. did it come out that way. no, i never meant that.

i was asking alouise what the difference was between my communal garden, a public park and say camping.
i say agin, i never said alouise accused me of neglect. i know she ddi not. i did not read her post to mean that she did.
the woman from the council, with her flippnat comment, basically did accuse me.

so no, i wasn't being oversensitive.

Nancydrew - I think the bottom line is that I don't think young children should be left unsupervised like that. I don't care whether their parents are living on benefits or living in £1million homes. I have every sympathy for those on benefits as we lived on benefits for a year after my DH was made redundant. And I know how difficult it is to live in a flat with a young child because I've done that too. But I would never ever allow my young children out unsupervised.

Summer - I agree that her readiness to befriend strangers is very worrying. She attached herself very quickly to us, which can often be a sign of neglect. It is usually a healthy sign if children are wary of strangers. And alouise - I am concerned that this child is very neglected too.

Oblomov - sorry, it did sound as if you were accusing alouise. I see that it was the woman at the council who upset you.