I'm just an average gypsy AMA

[GypsyAMA]

I've noticed a lot of hatred towards gypsies on here so I thought I'd answer any questions anyone may have that could help you to understand my culture more. You might still disagree with many aspects, but at least you'll be coming from facts and not stereotypes.

Do you condemn gypsies that cause severe damage to the communities they park up in? Our high school was badly vandalised when I was a teen and the local park was unusable for over a year after they left - all caught on CCTV. There are small groups that do cause excessive amounts of damage and destruction which is where the bad reputation comes from, however we’ve never known any group to condemn those that act the way this group did (though I will repeat small groups, not every group, I’ve only come across one group of gypsies in my life to cause so much carnage).

Are there any celebrities / sportsmen who have Roma heritage that you are aware of? Is it something people would downplay because of prejudice?

Can you really not think this through yourself, that you must be stepped through it? Or are these questions in bad faith?

1- Gypsy is an ethnicity, a race
2- People can look more obviously gypsy if they dress in a way associated with being a gypsy
3- Therefore people might have positive interactions with gypsy people dressed in gym clothes, or those people don't put them together with being gypsy.
4- But when those same gypsy people dress more identifiably gypsy, or interact with people who are more aware of gypsy styling, then those people are subject to discrimination for being a gypsy.

You seem determined to believe she just has a victim mentality, when in reality what she is saying is perfectly logical.

I couldn't agree more!

Just wanted to say that I find this thread really interesting and I'm enjoying learning about your culture.

I have a question that might be a bit ignorant (and hopefully not racist!) but where I live there are a group of people who sit outside the local supermarket asking for money etc. I always assumed they were Roma but from how you describe your community they seem more like the Roma I've seen in Europe. Can you give your thoughts on this or have I made a massive racist assumption? Obviously you can see the people I'm talking about so maybe this is a stupid question!

@HeadDeskHeadDesk
Of course @Specialguardianshiporderchild can't give specifics of cases she has worked with. Do you really think that social workers or health visitors (or any other person who works confidentially with families) should give examples of issues concerning families they work with on the internet? Even if this is done totally anonymously this is a short cut to a disciplinary hearing - can't believe you would think otherwise.

I have to say I agree with those few posters who are pointing out that education does not seem to have given most posters on this thread critical thinking skills.

Do you feel connected to nature in your caravans? We lived in a caravan for a year and I’ve never felt so close to the seasons. How close do you feel to the traditions and lifestyle of pre-motorised gypsy life?

Our local scrap man is from the gypsy site - he checks if something looks like it may not have been left out for him, he says thank you, he saves me the bother of taking something away. Literally provides a service and earns his living that way - same as the person who delivers parcels or mows the local field!

I have no idea at all what ethnicity/community/background/area our local scrap men are - we have at least two different ones and they don't look any different from anybody else - but they never stop to ask if anything metal that they can see is for them or not.

Often, it's completely obvious that it's been put out for them to take - but they've also been seen taking abandoned shopping trolleys (with the supermarket's name clear on the handle), swings from front gardens and other metal items that have clearly just been delivered - still in their packaging.

I'm not saying they can't be really convenient and helpful - we caught them just as we had hauled our old broken washing machine outside and they gladly took it and saved us the bother of putting it in the car and taking it to the tip - but they do very much err on the side of 'ask no questions, won't be told no'.

Many years ago I remember a programme on Spanish tv where they were interviewing gypsies (although Spanish gypsies) and this question came out, about their lack of interest in education (basically only basic reading/writing and counting). This man said that to aspire to be more than his father was an insult to said father, like he wasn´t enough. To us, aspiring to do well and afford more stuff than our parents was the norm. I think a lot of it comes from this idea. Only one gipsy in our school made it to the end of basic education and then went on to go to high school, but she was very unusual and so were her parents.

I find it very interesting that posters are berating OP for gypsies not willing to better themselves through education, whereas it is actually not that uncommon for people to be happy with their lot, whatever it is, in all walks of life in Britain.

Given that Britain is still very class conscious society (as compared to say US or Russia), there is SO MANY examples of people of working class or middle class not actively pursuing better education and better professions with more money :) (say investment banking where you can make money and better yourself in one generation is disproportionally staffed by immigrants or non-Brits).
the explanations usually are: someone has to work in a supermarket/school; I don’t want to be working long hours, I want to be able to see my children; i have enough and happy with what I have.
Plus doses of reverse snobbery towards higher earners or even members of their own class who crossed the class divide (including their own children). Why for example not every British parent wants and pushes for best school, best tutors, best university? Lots of people think that a local comp is good enough, but is it really?

If you think about it, it is no different actually that wanting to stay a Roma with traditional Roma way of life.
🤷‍♀️

My kids go to a state secondary in a predominantly working class area.

Do you really think they aren’t getting an education or that their working class classmates might as well have stayed at home and learned trades/ housekeeping from their parents?

From what I can see our school is doing a lot to support kids from different backgrounds.

Do you think someone who is being taught at home by parents who also left school early will have a fair chance should they decide to pursue a career outside their community?

Removing children from school at 12 just keeps the community closed and insular and disadvantaged

Well yes, but while the community isn't alone in this, keeping it closed appears to be the preference, and the disadvantage can always be blamed on someone else

Interesting that there's been no answer to the many questions about whether there's censure of wrongdoers within the community itself

I had a Gypsy boy who was admitted with a crushed pelvis (accident on a quad bike), and his family were constantly turning up at odd hours etc.

The Dad usually came in smoking, but mostly because he was used to smoking whenever/wherever he wanted, not because he was being difficult at all.

The whole family swore frequently and were very loud, so we ended up basically putting the lad into a room on his own.

But every single time I reminded the Dad to not smoke, or for the family to 'keep it down' or to stop swearing, they were very apologetic and polite. It's just that they were behaving as they would at home, but they were not trying to be obstructive or difficult at all. We actually ended up very friendly as the boy was in for weeks, and they had a wicked sense of humour (which closely alligned to the medical 'black humour') and we laughed every day with them.

At one point, the Dad came to visit with his shotgun casually on his shoulder, and he was genuinely mystified when staff and parents started running away and hiding as he walked down the corridor !

But the whole family were polite and respectful when you asked them to stop doing something and they had no ill will towards anyone at all, no deliberately bad or disruptive behaviour, just a genuine confusion about why some things simply weren't acceptable in a hospital.

How we live our lives is quite simply 'alien' to many Gypsy people, but that doesn't make them bad people any more than we would be bad people if we were in their 'world' and didn't understand what would be 'obvious' or common knowledge' for Gypsies.

@DodoTired but by having an education it gives you a choice. And barriers need to be removed. Good, free education should be available to all. That’s there shouldn’t be inadequate comps

That's very sad, and it seems to turn things completely upside down. For the majority of us parents, nothing would make us happier than for our children to achieve more than we did and to enjoy opportunities and privileges that we never had.

Op someone said above this is their favourite ama ever and I have to agree. Thank you so much for this thread x

@LifeWithADHD

FWIW, I did my GCSE’, have a law degree and I’m a qualified nurse (didn’t follow the law career just wanted to study it out of interest) and I couldn’t tutor my children. I can’t even do my 8 year olds math homework!

That's not really painting your degree level education in a good light TBH !

Specialguardianship said:

'in my line of work, I sometimes support gypsies and travellers'

I merely asked what her line of work was. Initially I did not pay much attention to her user name and the answer could have been anything pretty generic, from midwife to teacher to GP to social worker, to citizen's advice advisor.

She replied 'I can't go into specifics unfortunately.'

All I wanted was a job title. No 'examples of issues concerning families' were asked for, nor were they necessary in order for her to answer my question. The answer would not have breached any confidentiality at all.

There is nothing wrong with my critical thinking thank you, but there seems to be something wrong with your basic comprehension of what was a pretty straightforward and harmless question from me.

Sorry, but if a cultural norm means denying children secondary education thus considerably limiting their life choices, I do see it as problematic.

OP said herself in one of her posts that only a small percentage of kids in her community continue education after turning 12, so it’s not like it’s just a few families deciding to homeschool.

And if it’s common to leave school early, how good can the subsequent homeschooling be?

Its' equally appalling for the general public though to witness the behaviours manifested by "some" gypsies.
Just today.... in the local co op... parking a large car across three bays, (of 6 in total) loud, aggressive, entitled behaviour in the shop. Unwilling to wait, huffing and puffing at the staff when called to task for vaping in the shop. I could go on...

The behaviours in the GP's Pharmacy are equally horrendous, loud, entitled and demanding. The staff doling out their "free meds"just roll their eyes.
It's really not surprising that gypsies get a bad press. But of course it's
"a protected characteristic" so nobody dares say anything which is where resentment arises.
They don't pay their way in society and expect "special" consideration/ treatment/ exemption

@Katiesaidthat that's an interesting perspective.

I know they identify as Travellers, and not Gypsies, but I think the case of the grave of Willy Collins in Sheffield is an extreme example of what makes a lot of people shudder when it comes to people from a travelling culture.

The idea that they seem to be able to get away with whatever they like, assume that rules simply don't apply to them, the police and authorities are scared of them, and they just shout 'racism' when challenged on what the majority of people would see as widely unacceptable behaviour (whoever acted like that).

I realise that this by no means applies to all G/R/T people - but the events seem to happen on a regular enough basis that the instinct is to fear and distrust everybody from a travelling background.

Obviously not with the cemetery, but I think there is also the concern that, when people do travel around all the time, it's the perfect cover for the irresponsible ones who couldn't care less - when they themselves not only don't have to remain in communities that they leave in a mess but they are also harder to trace when they move on.

I'm also guessing that many travelling people genuinely see themselves as the victims of a vicious circle. If there aren't enough official sites for them where they need/want them, they have no choice but to invade parks and school playing fields. But these obviously have no facilities for the disposal of toilet and other household waste, so what else are they to do but leave it in the middle of the field - they are simply left with no alternative.

But because this is known to frequently happen, when there is talk of new official sites for Travellers or Gypsies, locals are fiercely against it - meaning that the respectful ones who just want a peaceful, law-abiding nomadic lifestyle, without leaving mess at all when they leave, are between a rock and a hard place.

@DodoTired
I find it very interesting that posters are berating OP for gypsies not willing to better themselves through education, whereas it is actually not that uncommon for people to be happy with their lot, whatever it is, in all walks of life in Britain

I see you point but the problem is that the GRT are the most disadvantaged group in the UK. In all areas of life including health, poverty, employment and education. I wouldn't be 'happy with my lot' if it meant I was likely to die 12 years early than the national average for example.
Education even a basic education, especially for females means they will have more options in life. Something that can only be a good thing especially in a community where it is three times more likely you will end up being a single mother with dependent children. Surely no one would suggest that they should be happy to be in that position.

Before this thread I didn't realize quite how deprived the GRT community are. I knew of the low average age of death and that the GRT community are very over represented in prison but I hadn't realized quite how many have to deal with poverty and lack of basic education. The statistics really are eye opening.

Well, how do you measure success? You were the one who said that “many many people with little and no education who go on to be successful”. Hence my question, what are they doing?

I don’t think someone like Charlie Mullins is such a good example.
How many people who didn’t complete school are worth 70 million? And how many are destitute, struggling, stuck in badly paid jobs without any hope of improvement?

For me, it’s not about a fancy job title or 70 million or whatever, it’s about being able to make a living, to stand on your own feet (and in an ideal case to pursue a career that interests you).

Taking a child out of school at 12 limits their chances to do that considerably.

How could they not know what normal acceptable behaviour is? They know exactly what normal behaviour is. Why the don't take others into consideration is for their own community to explain, but I do not accept that they are oblivious as you infer.

Even if a community doesn't mix socially with others in their area, they experience a society just by being in it.

I think babying them by saying they just didn't know they couldn't light up in a hospital, or walk around with a gun, or even keep the noise down as OTHER PEOPLE ARE ILL TOO, is pretty diabolical. They don't know any better????? Really?