I'm just an average gypsy AMA

[GypsyAMA]

I've noticed a lot of hatred towards gypsies on here so I thought I'd answer any questions anyone may have that could help you to understand my culture more. You might still disagree with many aspects, but at least you'll be coming from facts and not stereotypes.

I could not agree more.

I would assume that most home ed parents didn’t leave school at 12 themselves though, so they’ll be better equipped to provide standard education with the help of books and online resources.

Being a high school science or history teacher and not knowing much about A-level business isn’t the same as not having had any formal secondary education at all.

As for tutors, would tutors from outside the community be accepted?
I know some people who homeschooled their kids, but they exposed them to a wide range of learning resources and they were also university educated themselves.

@Kacijade many people want to sit with their family when they are in hospital, that is not peculiar to only a few cultures. But hospitals have policies for a reason, restricting numbers of visitors, visiting times.

@conversekid

Obviously there will be plenty of exceptions but the statistics are clear that the GRT are the most deprived minority group in the UK and are most likely to have the lowest paying basic jobs with little or no job security.

Most of the examples of famous people who have done well in business despite not having 'qualifications' will have had a basic education and at least have basic numeracy and literacy skills.

I think you absolutely can give specifics but do not want to, probably because you think it might confirm some of the negative stereotypes people already have about Gypsies, Roma and Irish Travellers. Maybe there is a clue in your user name?

Well it has to be said the OP is far more eloquent and has better spelling and grammar than your average mumsnetter so let’s not be too rigid in our thinking about how these basic skills are acquired.

Yes to your broader point on discrimination, but one of the issues staying in this article is that over 50% have no educational qualifications and that 65% of gypsy men (85% of traveller men) have precarious employment compared to 19% of white British men.

These two things are connected.

The rights of children to an education part of the United Nations rights of the child. Schooling is a significant part of that. It’s not OK for ANY group to limit their children’s choices and chances by dropping out of that.

As the OP says, gypsy culture (like any culture) has changed over the years, and eg age of marriage is getting later.

It would be possible to change attitudes to education too.

There's a lot of outrage about children being removed from school. I wonder if those posters are as vocal about white middle class families who home educate and choose not to put their child in for exams. Or if they're as vocal about families from a similar cultural background who "unschool" or do "child led " learning?

Or do those children who aren't actively being taught to pass exams or gain qualifications not count because they're from an "approved culture"?

Okay now this one I'm partly guilty of.

In my family we have a lot of respect and admiration for hospital staff and always give generous gifts to the ward after anyone has had a stay, so I can't comment on anyone treating staff poorly.

However, for us it's very important that if someone is in hospital, you go and see them. Close family usually won't leave the building sometimes for days. Even if you can't see the patient, you should go to the hospital even just to greet the family and show your support. It would be looked upon very badly if you didn't visit someone in hospital. So I have definitely bent these rules, but I would never argue with staff about visiting numbers or hours.

Interesting thread OP. Thanks for this

I think most people would express very negative feelings about parents who chose not to put their children in for exams, yes.

It's mostly because of the impression that girls are taken out of school and then become housekeepers and mothers. No expectations for them to do anything else. It's seems limiting and odd. Most home school parents expect their kids to learn up to a high level. Not have no education.

@Sconesandgravy I worry about any child who is being denied an education and choices in life, doesn’t matter what class they are from. A traditional school environment might not suit all children, and I think there does need to be reform. But if a child is being taken out and not given an opportunity to have choices, then that is wrong, whatever class or culture you are from.

The thread is about 'gypsies' I suspect if it was about people who make the choice not to educate their children then the answers would address that.

I suspect (but haven't fact checked) though that the health and other outcomes for the 'white MC' type of families you are talking about won't be anything like as bad as those experienced by children from the GRT communities.

As for tutors, would tutors from outside the community be accepted?

I have no idea, I am not a gypsy. I do know that if you hire a tutor you have control over what they teach- they aren’t going to give a sex ed lesson or talk about drugs or relationships or whatever.

I would assume that most home ed parents didn’t leave school at 12 themselves though, so they’ll be better equipped to provide standard education with the help of books and online resources.

I know loads of home ed parents who have very little/very poor education themselves- school drop outs, people from other countries who don’t speak English and don’t understand the school system here, people who went to crap schools and failed their GCSEs, people who don’t value formal education, people whose primary concern is religious instruction and shielding their children from outside influences etc.

Is it great that they then home ed? Possibly not, but they do and if it’s allowed for the majority of the population it has to be allowed for the Gypsy community.

Plenty non famous people who run successful businesses with little and no education. Not every business you are aware of is run by some highly educated person with a degree.

These families will have basic numeracy and literacy skills. There are other ways to learn that are not in a traditional education setting.

The Gypsy family who live by me have a ground works business and hire out fork lifts etc and of course they can read and write and count - how else would they manage to run their business provide quotes etc

I am getting the impression the majority on this thread have never properly met or spent time with anyone in that community.

Our traditional ways are not always the right ways and people need to stop being so narrow minded.

I’d go as far to say the sex education excuse is used as a red herring, gypsies do not believe in educating beyond primary because education is power and would open their minds to the outside world, particularly the girls. An independent educated girl would not covet a life of cleaning and looking after her husband and family at such a young age.

Capping their access to education is a control mechanism to ensure the traditions and beliefs continue, which was possibly before social media. Now the gypsy children have access to the world at their fingertips it’s only a matter of time before what was once acceptable, isn’t.

@conversekid there are always outliers, but the statistics referenced previously show how disadvantaged certain cultures are, and a large part of that will be down to lack of education.

It’s a bit like during exam season there will always be quotes from famous people saying how successful they have been and they only got 1 O-level. But what isn’t said is that many of these people had family money to help them set up a business etc. So not a level playing field for all adults with few or no qualifications

I've just remembered that there was a teacher who was a gypsy at my old comprehensive - late 80s, early 90s. Might have been a supply teacher, although she was there for quite a while. So there we were, the bottom set for maths with all the rough boys in, lining up outside the classroom with all the usual pushing and shoving, and apparently one of the boys called another boy a "gyppo" (sp) just as this teacher walked by. She said "I'M A GYPSY!" and gave him the full "how dare you" speech. It was the only time I ever heard anyone pulled up for racism, in a school where you would hear the word P*ki multiple times per day. Her name was Miss Honey and she was petite with a dark complexion.

OP, do you know any.gypsies who are teachers?

@conversekid

We aren't talking about 'highly educated' we are talking about the basic. Basic literacy and numeracy. This isn't about exams but basic education. What people need to be able to get anything other than the most basic, insecure and low paid jobs.

I know there are exceptions but the statistics are giving the full picture of the deprevation that the GRT community face. I know there are loads of successful people in the GRT community but that doesn't stop it being true that the economic, social and health outcomes are awful. Really awful.
What do you expect your average young single mother with little to no education to do? It's clear that family is very important in the GRT community but the women are still THREE times more likely to be single
mothers thank in the population as a whole.

Charlie Mullins pops up on Jeremy Vine's show on Channel 5 from time to time, and he always seems really clueless.

He's obviously done very well for himself and either has the skills to run a very successful business or otherwise the ability to assemble a team of people who do; but if you compare him with, say, any of the Dragons (from Dragons' Den) when they're guests on other programmes, they genuinely seem to know their stuff, come across as intelligent, likeable people and are not constantly putting their foot in it.

I do find some of his views very right-wing and concerning - he doesn't seem to have much interest, knowledge or compassion for anybody who isn't him and doesn't share the same privileged opinions as he does.

Is it being used to describe a handsome boy/man, or something else?
I suspect the latter or you wouldn’t have mentioned it 🤦‍♀️
Would you mind giving some examples of the contexts, please?
I’m really curious 😂

Thank you

I think my earlier question about education was missed, it’s different to the other questions you’ve had.
Are you aware children are taught about sex in primary school? Usually in year 4 these days I believe. (Was year 6 when I was in school). And that trans/ gender ideology (teacher/ school dependent) is taught as young as 4 years old? You can no longer opt your child out of these classes. I’m wondering if you’re unaware of this or if you feel it does not matter until child is 12?

I’m also wondering if they finish at primary school age or start secondary and leave in first year when they turn 12? So either attending secondary school for a few days/weeks/months/ whole of year 7 depending on when their birthday is?

Thanks for the thread @GypsyAMA

I'm interested in Roma cultural history. Is this something you are particularly interested in yourself or know much about beyond the basics of Indian origins?

Is there much of a written history? I am imagining not, so would histories have been passed down by storytelling in the past, or maybe still (who moved where and why/notable figures etc), or maybe record keeping has never been important?

You say you're a devout catholic and attend mass at your local church. Have you ever experienced any issues, a clash of beliefs between other Catholics in the congregation and yourself? Do you ever get involved with the wider church community (coffee mornings/outreach programmes/committees etc), or is it a case of get in get out? 😆

People have all sorts of circumstances and set ups and personalities and beliefs. Do you think there is anything fundamental apart from heritage which makes you different to all other non-gypsy stay at home mums?

I'm also really interested in what work your husband does and you did, but I accept you don't want to answer that. Can you see yourself ever working again once the children are grown maybe?

Education is a core value in my family community.

hearing somebody say that they do not value education is just complete culture and moral anathema to me.
It is honestly absolutely mind boggling.

A mother saying that she doesn’t care about her children’s education is basically saying that she does not love her children and wants to actively hurt / harm them. I understand that this may sound incredibly judgemental and rude but this is honestly how this sounds to me based on the cultural and social framework I’m from.

I understand that you do not feel the same way. But I can’t wrap my head around the “why” (although I am honestly trying).

Why do other people care about education in your opinion?
Why don’t you care?
Do you know how that attitude developed (and how it managed to survive)?