I'm an Orthodox Jewish Woman, ask me anything.

[Jewishbookwork]

On the thread @Israelilefty started, people were asking about Orthodox Judaism. So I am starting (another) one here. Other Orthodox Jewish women are welcome to answer too, so we have more of a range of answers.

I am Chabad Chasidic, we are very religious - I wear a wig, my husband wears black and white and we have lots of books in hebrew in our house.

Religion aside, there is more chance of neglect the more dc you have. It makes sense, the more dependents 2 people have the less time/resources for each one. It has been identified that Strictly Orthodox children/adolescents fair worse than other Hackney counterparts in certain areas. Oral hygiene and mental health are two of the things that have been identified and measures have been put in place to try to improve these things. It isn't known why exactly, but no. of children is considered a likely factor. It can't be easy schlepping 7 dc along to the dentist every time. Some of these women are not allowed to drive and their husband's are busy learning so they are on their own during the day. The forbiddance of toothbrushing on shabbat following their 'party' probably doesn't help either (although that is only my thoughts, wasn't mentioned in report).

@Mamabear04 Thanks for explaining.
Most parents nowadays do their best to present Judaism in a positive and exciting way. It's widely understood that if parents force their kids into the customs the child will most likely rebel and reject Judasim once they hit their teens. So,we try to show our kids the beauty behind keeping the Torah, rather than discipling them into it. There really is so much meaning and purpose there. For example, rather than presenting Shabbat as a day of "do's and don'ts", my kids associate it as a day of relaxing with their family, favourite toys and treat, singing, visiting etc.
(For me, the real parenting struggle is getting my kids not to jump on the couch and to stay in their beds at night🙃)

About giving each child 1-1 attention: I think 1-1 bonding is really important, but it's quality over quantity.
In my situation I was blessed, growing up I didn't feel I had to vie for my mums attention, we chatted as a family over dinner, bathtime, bedtime, Shabbat, and that was enough.
My dad, I would have loved to spend more time with him, he works full time and I didn't see him much during the week, but he always came upstairs to say goodnight and chat for a few mins with each child, and Shabbat too, we had his time. Even if they didn't literally spend lots of alone time with me, I knew that they loved me and were there for me always.
Ultimately, it's a big challenge to have a large family* *and done right there are massive benefits. (And if a mum doesn't feel she can cope with it then there's always contraception)

Ours comfortable seats 6 (our chairs are big, smaller chairs might get 8 at a squeeze) but it extends twice more. No one gets priority at the table and if we had no space we would move the couches and add a folding table ( I do that when my family comes). Yes I do mixed women / men, and people seat themselves down, usually some of my kids next to dh and then we fit everyone else around that (stops meltdowns). Also normally women and men who aren’t married/relatives will seat themselves not next to each other if they can help it.

orthodox women won’t usually sing in a mixed group, unless it is just family.

Unfortunately you are right,even though there has been change, there is still a long way to go and some attitudes that stink and need to be changed. I don’t think they reflect real Torah values, I think they are a perversion of Torah.
I see it a bit like feminism has made huge strides over the last century and a half, if you look at women’s rights and freedoms at a macro level, but when you zoom in on a micro level we still have a long way to go ( eg convictions for rape) and work to do.
There are Jewish groups that are working to address these issues and educate people. I’m hopeful with time and continuing work there will be change.
I’ll add I also didn’t know about walder, and was really upset when the story broke. We chucked a book we had and another that had his name as part of the project, and told the older children about why we were doing that. I won’t burn books because of the holocaust.

@ER2

Seriously, 'marrying out' is as bad as murder to you?

Hi @sashh , it was frumsh not @ER2 . I'm not tagging them in - they strongly remind me of a rather provocative poster on previous Jewish AMA threads.

Are any of you saving for your dc's wedding from now? Will you still cover living costs for them after they are married? I see this on the US forum a lot.

I already have one married kid.

I guess we saved to some extant, not just for weddings, we had the money to pay either way.

We don't support our married kids. Our son in law studied in a kollel until they had a chilld and then he got a job, my daughter works. (except for mternity leave which is pathetic in the USA, :( where they live)

If we were able to I would love to help my kids buy a house, i don't think supporting kids via monthly help is healthy financially. Its also not a Chabad thing to do long term kollel.

Sorry to @ER2, my mistake, thank you for pointing that out @EllaDisenchanted

No, we have a general savings account for the kids, which is very small, and might be used for their weddings, but we have fairly high expenses as we have two SEN kids, so it’s hard to save, and I doubt it will be enough!

in terms of supporting after marriage, I don’t know where we will be financially at that point. It’s not something I’ve really thought about before. I do think I would want them to be financially independent, but I think we would want to help out where we could. I wouldn’t want them to be financially dependent on us parents for more than the first year, I don’t think it’s healthy.

Depends on when my kids get married as well, if they start shidduchim and marry very young, then I would probably need to support them a bit at the beginning, (but time limited, not indefinite) to help them get established.

we’re a way off, and DH might have a different opinion so we would need to discuss. Also each child’s needs are different and our finances could be very different at each child’s marriage, so I think it would likely be very individual discussions.

On the SEN note, how hard is it for people with disabilities/SEN to get married? Are there organizations that try to match people up in order to help them get married, or are they resigned to single life? I mean fairly middle of the road stuff, stuff as high functioning ASD, or a physical disability that doesn't hinder life too much, but is obvious.

There are specialist shadchanim, I imagine it is harder. It’s not something I know much about tbh.

Who caters for the weddings?

Is there a long engagement?

Usually there are Jewish kosher caterers who are usually hired, Gateshead has a different system but I don’t know how it works.

Standard engagement periods is around 3 months

3 months that's fast

Back in 2016 the wedding breakfasts I attended catered were £60 a head, three courses, wine on the table. I was aghast thinking I'd rather put it towards a mortgage.

The dress around 2k. No idea what bridesmaids cost. I do know the two weddings I attended that year each cost 26k.

Maybe I'm a Debbie downer but I just think all that money would be better spent on the home.

Surely this applies to any and all standard weddings where people do decide to do dress venue etc, and nothing specific to this Orthodox Jewish AMA or orthodox Jewish wedding ceremonies?

@Combusting if it was 26k in 2016. Eight years later you're looking at over 30k. To me it's better spent on the home.

I think there isn't such an expectation to get a mortgage ASAP in the Jewish community in many circles. Remember a lot of Jewish people live in expensive metro areas I. E. London and so realistically even with good incomes most people would only manage to buy around 30 and those are people with better incomes. And religious Jewish people marry at a young age (early 20s) so I guess buying a home feels far off and unattainable.

I remember telling my BIL's mum that I delayed my wedding celebration (though I had gotten married legally for visa reason) until I bought our flat and she was aghast. She asked if this was normal in my home country and I said yes, people tend to buy their flat first before marrying. But thinking about it, I think it's quite normal in the UK too, I mean, if someone had 10-30k disposable, surely most people would want to use that as part of a deposit rather than a fancy wedding. But for many circles in the Jewish community a big wedding is essential and with kosher catering and inflation it's going to cost 5 figures no matter how you spin it. Also Jewish weddings cost a lot more than regular weddings due to kosher catering.

I think for regular secular British people a wedding like that is kinda optional. I might even daresay that people who opt to get married nowadays without religious expectations are generally from middle class backgrounds and may even get generous cash gifts from older family members to defray the cost as its just as easy and acceptable to cohabitate.

There isn't an expectation to have 300 guests. Many people who can't afford it (and buy a home) opt for a simple reception or even just a meal for 20 at a restaurant. For religious Jewish people, big wedding is expected. My MIL did hers as simply as possible, ceremony in someone's back garden, dress was from a wedding dress bank but the stumbling block was the kosher food for 100.

@literaryloveaffair if a couple marry in their early 20's where do they live whilst saving up for their own place?

They rent. Some of the luckier ones might be given a deposit but that's true for a couple from any background.
Tbh I married in my early 20s too but lived with my in law's for 3 years . This is not common and for me it was mainly because my visa took a long time to be issued and dh & I took a year to settle in our careers. Then another year to buy as offer fell through a few times. My sister in law married at 27 and continued renting.

And I repeat : is this observation which seems to be about all wedding parties specific to an orthodox Jewish AMA?

Right. All these weddings booked round the corner from me at an opulent 4 star, and the many threads on here with hen dos abroad and bridezilla antics costing a bomb must largely generally be orthodox Jewish people tying knots

I had a do abroad at a 5 star hotel though it was only for 50 people. I did pay for my MIL and Sil plane tickets and hotel. I had already bought my flat at that stage though I did make a profit on my wedding due to cash gifts from relatives

People have all sorts of circumstances and given there is inheritance tax I imagine there are some generous grandmas and parents out there who want to give away their money and see their offspring enjoy it. But for orthodox Jews, you need to have a big wedding regardless of your own financial circumstances. Yes you can have it in a school hall but 200 people to feed is still 200 people.

I think it is relevant, as child poverty in the ultra Orthodox community in the UK is described as "acute" (Boyd, 2011). (I'm sure there are newer studies but this is the first one that came up, and I know the ultra orthodox is only a section of the Orthodox community). From what I have read, and @Jewishbookwork confirmed, is that there is a lot of pressure within some communities to keep up with weddings/designer clothing/homes etc. So against the context of child poverty and families relying on benefits and charity to feed their dc, spending £25k+ on a wedding day would raise a few eyebrows, regardless of what religious/ethnic background they are from. I personally think weddings are a waste regardless, the guests just make threads on here about how rubbish the wedding was anyway.