I'm an Orthodox Jewish Woman, ask me anything.

[Jewishbookwork]

On the thread @Israelilefty started, people were asking about Orthodox Judaism. So I am starting (another) one here. Other Orthodox Jewish women are welcome to answer too, so we have more of a range of answers.

I am Chabad Chasidic, we are very religious - I wear a wig, my husband wears black and white and we have lots of books in hebrew in our house.

How was your childhood experience growing up with 9 siblings? Were you in UK? Was this family size normal in your community? Are you from a wealthy background or was it a struggle? I know in Stamford Hill a family of 9 can be living in a small 2 bed flat and that isn't unusual. I'd love to know the logistics of how a family like that manage. Frieda Vizel features a fantastic woman called Pearl who gives insights into her home, if anyone from the Chassidic community is looking to make extra money this was be a very easy way to do it!

What are the biggest negative things about your religion.

I'm atheist and whilst I can see the huge benefits of living in such a supportive community I think I would find the rigid expectations to behave a certain way to suffocating.

Traditionally members who leave the orthodox community by dropping the religion or marrying out where mourned and in some circles shunned. As always the more modern orthodox being the most accepting in this area and Chassidic circles a lot less so.
I think this has changed and improved a lot over the past few years. There is IMO a positive change in mindset towards not ostracising those who leave the community, keeping channels open and showing unconditional love. Of course there is still feelings of disappointment that the child/loved one isn't following the faith they were brought up in, and there is always the hope and prayer that they will one day find meaning and joy in their Jewish faith.

You mentioned abuse cover-ups. Thankfully, abuse in my ultra orthodox community is very much called out and accounted for.

Racism: We spoke about this extensively in the other AMA thread. This is one area that the ultra-orthodox communities could do with more education. Because we send our kids to only Jewish schools with like-minded families, and we generally socialise and mix with our local community there is not much real life exposure to people of other races and background. So although we value and teach our kids to be accepting of everyone, even those different to them, there is very little practical application for them. (Modern orthodox I think are more exposed and aware here.)

Are Bat Mitzvahs are modern celebration? I think (from the little I know) that boys have been having Bar Mitvahs for millennia but I've only recently heard about Bat Mitvahs.

Are there still matchmakers in the community or is it now family & friends who help with introductions?

Growing up in a big family had its pros and its cons.
My parents married in England then moved to Israel for 4 years where I was born. They then moved back to the UK and we were raised here. I would say family size in the community ranges mostly between 5 - 10 kids. My family are not wealthy at all, but with my dad working hard, self-employed, in a service based industry, and having a couple of smart investments we didn't struggle growing up. My parents made ends meet, and us kids always had what we needed and thankfully didn't feel deprived.
I don't know about SH because I don't live there but I know that house prices in that area are through the roof. In my area, the average large family live in a 3 - 5 bedroom house.
You'd be hard to find a truly insular Chassidic woman willing to film herself and her home. Modesty and privacy is seen as a virtue and an ultra Chassidic woman would be very reluctant to broadcast her life.

The emotional/social experience of a large family was a lot of fun and noise. The house was always busy and happening. My mum was very capable and she'd take care of the smooth running of the home, washing, cleaning etc. We had cleaning help I think twice weekly. And us kids were expected to to some chores like prepare the table mealtime, clear up toys, help out preparing for Shabbos etc.
My siblings are all very close in age. My mum had 9 kids in 16 years (!). We were best friends but at times worst enemies to. Now that we've mostly grown up we don't fight anymore, now we got along beautifully. I never had my own bedroom growing up, I always shared it with one other sister. Some of my siblings do resent this, but I wan't bothered. I do hope to give my kids the experience of many siblings.
To give some balance, there are some families I know that really struggle with having and supporting so many kids. Thankfully, there are many organisations that help out financially and with other support, but it isn't always easy.

(Not 9 siblings. 9 children. 8 siblings. My mistake)

Biggest negatives are not so much about my religion, more about communal issues within my community.
For example, the lack of education in orthodox schools in the area of diversity and racism I think is a big one, as I explained in previous post.

I hear you fully that it sounds rigid. Being brought up with these customs and boundaries makes most second nature so it doesn't usually feel stifling. It is also very important that we bring up our kids with joy and positivity, so most commandments are not framed as "Do this, Don't do that.."
Rather we make them enjoyable and exciting. For example Shabbos we don't use any electricals or technology, no phones, no computers, no car etc. We don't focus on the laws. We frame it as Shabbos is a relaxing day to switch off and connect with family and socialise with friends, play games, pray, chat, eat.
We focus on understanding the meaning and beauty behind the commandments and imparting that to our kids helps them view Judaism positively.
Also, there are many different levels of observance within the religious Jewish world so those who find their community too stringent will find a more liberal and relaxed community.

Judaism doesn't encourage converts. We don't need to "save" anyone from other faiths.
According to the Torah, a Non-Jew only has to abide by the 7 Noahide laws in order to go to heaven.

For those looking for context. A Bar Mitzva is a mega birthday party for a boy turning 13 and Bas/Bat Mitzva is for a girl turning 12.
These are the ages that the Torah views them as adults, meaning they now are obligated to keep the Torah laws. This is also the age from when a boy is counted towards a prayer group. (10 men are needed in order to form a prayer group. A boy 13+ can be part of this group).
Bar Mitzva's are large events celebrated for the community to attend and traditionally Bat Mitzvas were smaller events for just close family like any other significant birthday party. Celebrating with larger Bat Mitzva parties do seem to be a newer thing, and I'm not against it.

The reason why boys Bar Mitzva's have such great fanfare is because this boy now has to so many new responsibilities, such as going to synagogue 3x daily to pray, and others, we want to start him on this journey into adulthood with as much excitement as possible. Girls aren't obligated with the same commandments as males are, hence their bat mitzvah celebrations weren't as significant.

Do you go all out for Bar Mitzva? How much would you pay? I read about $50k being normal in some communities, which seems utter madness. Does anyone feel it has become more commercial than religious?

Bar Mitzva needs to be a meaty meal of 10+men. Usually there ends up being alot more then 10 people because once you invite all friends, cousins, uncles aunts etc. It often can amount to 100 people. You can make it as extravagant or simple as you are comfortable with. Some people cook their own food, some cater. Personal choice.
In some communities especially in America there is a lot of social pressure and keeping up with the Jones (or Cohen's, for a more Jewish surname 😉) and I've heard of bar mitzva's costing astronomical amounts. My kids aren't bar mitzva aged yet so I don't know realistic costs, if I'm giving a guess, a bar mitzva of 80 people, £200 for a small hall, £1000 food, £200 new black hat and suit for bar mitzva boy. I might be way off here, and standards do vary alot.

...and you need to pay for Tefillin for the Bar Mitzva boy. We didn't get our son a hat, as that is not the norm in the Dati Leumi Torani circles here.

It's as much or as little as you want e.g. do you want photos, entertainment, music (a kid on a keyboard or a 5 piece band), to pay for flowers or borrow fake flower centrepieces from a gemach (free lending society)... It's a bit like weddings, you can have a simple registry wedding with a small meal in a restaurant after, or you can go all the way up to kim kardashian levels!

Funny, I am also the oldest of 9!

@istoodonlegoagain sorry, I sent you instagram recommendations and you asked for youtube! 🙃

I’ve got a close friend who’s a liberal Jew in USA. For years she was brought up Jewish but her parents divorced when she was a child so though she saw her father and his family there was more interaction on her mother’s side.

When she went to college there (uni) she got engaged to a Jewish man who seemed liberal but turned out he later wanted to become more orthodox, anyway he got more serious about religion and moved to Israel in his 20s. My friend met and married her Catholic husband and brings up her daughters (they’re adopted and from another country) in both Jewish and Catholic religions. She’s found the Jewish community to be kind and supportive after both her parents died and she follows her religion including Jewish holidays but not Sabbath. She does consider she had a narrow escape not moving to Israel and becoming more orthodox as this just wasn’t her.

If you look at Blake Ezra's website you will see some wild Bar/Bat Mitzvah's. I used to work with a chap whose family is featured a few times.

It's an interesting one, because the community is so fascinating and admirable in some ways, but as with any very insular communities, there are beliefs and attitudes that aren't very appealing.

I grew up in an area that was very Jewish-heavy. I have many Jewish friends (mostly reform), have been to many seders and bar mitzvahs, etc, and largely, in my own dealings, have positive interactions with orthodox Jews (I chose an orthodox woman as my doula in London). However, some of my Jewish friends have had very negative dealings with the orthodox (mostly Chasidic) community, which I can understand really colours the relationship.

I find the new tiktok/insta influencers fascinating because it traditionally hasn't been an outward focused religion. For those who aren't familiar, I really like Miriam Ezagui, who is an orthodox labor and delivery nurse and has a heart of gold. Some others to look at (but who I don't really enjoy as much) are That Jewish Family (Australian-Swedish orthodox couple who travel the world with their kids) and The Real Melinda Strauss (modern orthodox from somewhere in the US).

I agree with you here. I’ve worked for a company as a young temp that employed Orthodox Jews. The men had to speak to me for work but it was quite literally a few words and I can’t recall what name they used. I also find that if I’m in certain areas of London (Stamford Hill) that if I did speak to an orthodox person in a shop or something, that they wouldn’t be that friendly.

My American friend didn’t have a Bat Mitzvah but her younger half sister did have one.

I’ve been given “lessons” on Yom Kippur (day of atonement) but it was only when I had a liberal Jewish boss who told me that you also reflect for a day or so before you atone, my Jewish friend in America just used to say that her chest hurt after thumping it for Yom Kippur.

Growing up I lived near Brixton and Streatham which in South London had pockets of Jewish people living there. I recall in the local supermarket seeing Kosher butter for sale and driving or walking past the Kosher butchers (you saw them working there) and there was a synagogue nearby and one also in Brixton - now both long gone.

Somewhere also near my home now is Bromley which apparently has a Jewish population. I recently saw the singer Alex Clare is from there (I think?) he now lives in Israel with his family and is orthodox but says he was raised in a secular home.

Before the pill women were having babies up to their menopause. Babies in a woman's forties was normal. So your breeding space was 30 years. My granny was one of ten. Luckily they were farmers so all the children thrived and lived

Are there any or many fiction books that have been written with orthodox Jews as target audience?

Theres a whole genre of orthodox fiction. Walk into a Judaica store and you will see them. Also religious weekly magazines such as mishpacha and Ami serialise a lot of novels.

Most people writing for an orthodox audience wouldn't use a mainstream publisher. The tend to be published by Orthodox publishing houses.

I am one of the midde children of a large family (about 10 kids).

We lived in Stamford House in a pretty big 5 bedroom house, I grew up the 80s/90s so probably when my parents bought it was a bit more affordable. (I just asked my dad and he said they bough our house for approx £20000 in the moid 70s. Now houses in the area go for a million or so. They did buy it with some family help though)

Both my parents had full time professional jobs, they came from less religious backgrounds so went to university etc.

I don't know how my mother did it, we did help a lot, I remember at one stage having a whole rota where each day each child did one job such as wash up or cook supper or sweep the floor. We had some cleaning help.

I had a few classmates with similar sized familes and houses, other kids had 6 or 7 siblings, one had about 15.

I know Stamford Hill has a jewish housing association, that probably helps a lot with housing issues.

A lot of famiies move to Manchester for cheaper housing.

Very few of my friends live in Stamford Hill so not so familiar with current housing situations.

Sorry if this is TMI, but I assume when you get to a certain age you understand that your mother is going to mikvah and that will be 'sex night'. Was that in any way upsetting or disgusting for you? I would have been quite distressed knowing my parents were having a 'second honeymoon' as a teen 🤣

My questions are about schooling and education.

How do families in your community make decisions on schooling? Quite a few Jewish schools on OFSTED appear to be rated "Inadequate" and upon reading the detailed report it becomes evident how serious and wide-ranging some of the issues indeed are. What would you say is the general approach to school selection? Are these reports and ratings taken into account, or at least the issues they raise, taken into account? Do women have a significant decision making power and say, for instance, in what schools their sons or daughters attend?

A second, related question about education. Some Orthodox Jewish schools I see (went down a rabbit hole today) - completely prohibit media both in the school and the home - including television and of course all digital. Whilst this might eliminate entirely certain risks, how about opportunities? Would you say these students are receiving adequate opportunities to develop key skills, key digital literacies, capabilities and competencies to live and work, and contribute fully in the contemporary world?