I'm a Jewish Israeli, AMA

[israelilefty]

Jewish Israeli here. I grew up in a different country but have lived and worked most of my adult life here, living a fairly normal everyday life in northern Israel. When I'm not working, I enjoy cooking and hiking, I'm religiously observant (but also feminist), I'm on the left of the political spectrum, and have everyday contact with people from quite a range of different perspectives - Israeli society is incredibly diverse.

I guess I see us portrayed in a kind of monolithic way in the English-language media, so I'm taking a deep breath and posting here...

Feel free to AMA, just remember you're asking a real person, not a government or military spokesman :) I'll try to answer from my personal standpoint. as long as it's asked in good faith.

Just to note, been a busy few days with the Passover holiday and we have another holiday (7th day Passover) starting tomorrow night but I’ll try to get to the other qus ASAP.

Hi @israelilefty I have seen that there are demonstrations calling for a ceasefire/hostage deal in Israel taking place, which has had quite a heavy response from the police.
You mentioned previously that you used to partake in demonstrations, do you still feel safe to do so?

I've written about this before. I would say that most Israelis see aid to Gazan civilians as both the right thing to do ethically, and also strategically in Israel's interests, because if aid doesn't reach Gazans, Israel will face increasing international pressure. However, food security in Gaza, or in general the wellbeing of Gazans, is not at the top of the headlines in Israel. One reason for this is that the news is preoccupied with other issues, particularly the hostages, and at the moment the unstable situation with Hezbollah and Iran. Secondly, while I would say that most Israelis are sympathetic to the plight of civilian Gazans, and certainly I've heard that expressed on the radio, for many Israelis sympathy for Gazans is tempered by the knowledge that many, many Gazans are/were willing participants in Hamas's actions, allowing their homes to be used for tunnel entrances, or storing weapons in their houses, or aiding the taking and keeping of hostages. That's not to say that people think that Gazan civilians shouldn't be given aid (as I said above, any thinking Israeli with a moral compass thinks that aid should be arranged) but it means that it's not a heart jerking story at the top of the headlines.

Another reason is that there is significant discrepancy between the way the humanitarian crisis is framed in Israel and outside. People outside Israel might see this as "their government letting children starve a few miles away" but that's not how the crisis is seen in Israel. There is plenty of trenchant criticism in Israel from the political centre and left about the lack of planning by those prosecuting the war for the "day after" and therefore leaving a power vacuum in which there is no infrastructure for the degree of humanitarian aid needed. But inside Israel blame for the crisis is accorded primarily to Hamas, for allowing its civilians to starve in order to pursue its military gains; for stealing aid and keeping it for themselves or selling it on the black market; and also for firing shells at the new pier being built for sea deliveries which would enable aid to get to the north by bypassing Hamas control. Israeli media also critiques the UN for not doing enough to distribute the aid which is already inside the Gaza strip but is waiting for delivery inside Gaza. There is a regular spat on Twitter between the UN and COGAT, the Israeli co-ordinating agency, with the UN accusing Israel of holding up aid deliveries and Israel accusing the UN of cancelling convoys which had been co-ordinated and approved, and pointing out that some of the declined convoys recently were in order to improve the road for better access for aid vehicles.

I answered mostly in the previous post but the question do I see a change: first of all, I think that the Israeli establishment woke up (too late) to the fact that vastly better arrangements for aid are needed, and as far as I can see this is being taken seriously. Second, the big change is that as far as Israelis are concerned, the war in Gaza is almost over. The army has almost entirely pulled out of Gaza by now, and everyone knows that even if a Rafah operation happens, it won't look like previous parts of the war did. The picture from Israel is that we are stuck in a prolonged endgame until Hamas agrees to release the hostages. I hear increasingly prominent voices in the Israeli mainstream saying that at this point we should stop the war and make a hostage deal, and deal with the Rafah issue later.

As in the previous post: until 1977 all Israeli prime ministers came from the Labour movement and there were various left wing governments until Yitzhak Rabin, Labour Party prime minister, was assassinated in 1995 and the Oslo peace accords failed.

Right now the Israeli left needs to rebuild itself. After Oct 7 it will be very difficult to hang on to naive views about the peace process. I think it will be a long time until left parties will be back in power. But because Israeli politics works via coalitions, I hope that the left can be part of future coalitions with centre or even centre-right parties, as they were under Bennett in the previous government, which had a right-wing prime minister but his coalition included left and even a Palestinian Islamist party.

"how do left leaning ideals interface with judaism/orthodox Judaism?" I don't think that politics maps on to religion - one can be a religious Jew and vote right or left. It's true that there are currently more right-wing religious Jews (see Gershon Gorenberg's excellent "The Accidental Empire" for how religious Jews came to spearhead the settlement project) - but for me, Judaism has a strong tradition of social justice and freedom and I find my religious values compatible with my left-wing ideals, as do many people in my community, which I would say leans left politically.

Those of us who demonstrate against the government are used to fairly heavy police responses, which are generally connected to unauthorised parts of the protest like blocking roads. I haven't been able to participate much in the recent demonstrations (combination of living too far away and childcare commitments) but I would continue to if I could. It can be a bit intimidating standing next to police horses and water cannons but it's a way of trying to scare people into not demonstrating, and at this point, as in last year's democracy protests, I would be willing to take the consequences in order to help put pressure on the government.

Hello @israelilefty I hope you are doing well. I read a few different updates today in the TOI regarding the public dispute between Netanyahu and Gallant. From what I understood Gallant is saying that he believes that there should be a plan post war for Gaza which is governed by (non-Hamas) members of the Palestinians. And he won't back the idea of the security and governance being controlled by Israel (essentially the sort of occupation we are seeing in the occupied west bank)
Netanyahu and others seem very opposed to this idea and are saying no way will they allow this.
My first question is have I understood the above correctly?
And secondly why is there so much backlash to what Gallant has said? Is this something that was unexpected of him to propose? Or is it because he publicly went against Netanyahu?
Thank you in advance

So in short: there is a bit of a political chessboard going on as this war takes an eternity in grinding to a halt. Defence minister Gallant made a speech publicly echoing calls from the defence establishment (and from the rest of the world) to set out concrete plans for postwar Gaza, something Netanyahu has consistently failed to do, preferring his long-term tendency to postpone major decisions by kicking the can further and further down the road.

This is a major public challenge to Netanyahu from a senior minister within his own party and coalition, and from someone on the political right. For Israelis it also echoes Gallant's speech against the judicial overhaul in March 2023, after which he was fired by Netanyahu, kicking off the biggest night of protests the country had ever seen. It cranks up the political pressure on Netanyahu - he has been deeply unpopular with the public throughout the war, but this doesn't matter as long as his coalition survives. Until now Netanyahu has played to the far right, as Ben Gvir and Smotrich have threatened to quit if he would compromise on his hardline stance, but this reminds us that the coalition would also lose its majority if four more moderate Likud MKs would decide to leave. This leaves Netanyahu with very little space to manoeuvre. At the same time he faces huge public pressure in Israel for failing to bring the hostages home and for the widespread perception that he is allowing the war to continue for personal and political reasons not for strategic reasons; Israel's standing in the world is worsening every day; and he is facing open criticism from the defence establishment for allowing the war to slog on with no clear goals (other than "completely remove Hamas" which nobody with their heads screwed on believes can happen), meaning that military gains have been lost and soldiers have been sent back again and again to the same places, and meanwhile soldiers are being lost daily.

@israelilefty apologies for the late reply and thank you very much for answering my question. It has certainly helped to understand the situation better

I have come to your thread late, and cannot express how moved I am by this post. Thank you for getting out of bed to try to bear witness with your own true feelings during this dreadful war.

You wrote:
When you ask an individual caught up in a conflict to hold the losses of the other side in their heart, you are asking something that is beyond the human capacity.

I can well believe this, and think most people would be this way if they found themselves in the midst of a war, but think you are exceptionally brave to admit it.

You have said you are praying. May grace and peace come at last to Israel and Palestine.

Reposting here what I wrote in a thread on the conflict forum (which to my slight despair I have been reading here and there...) about the new ceasefire plan...

Some quick analysis from an Israeli here on the ground:

Israeli news (Ynet, mainstream) is reporting that Israel confirms Biden's speech and is reporting it as "Israel's proposed deal". A "senior source" is the deal will allow Israel (i.e. Netanyahu) to claim that the goals have been met. Opposition party leader Yair Lapid has confirmed that his party will vote with the coalition to pass the deal if the far right bolts the coalition.

I think that there is also significance in the timing of Biden's announcement - right at the beginning of the Jewish sabbath, which gave the deal 24 hours of press coverage and wall-to-wall international support before Netanyahu's religious right-wing coalition partners could respond – Haaretz (left wing news site) is reporting that Biden's remarks were coordinated with Israel and there were concerns about the reaction of Smotrich and Ben Gvir (far right).

I am wary of relying on personal intuition since I move in pretty left-wing, fervently anti-Netanyahu circles, but my sense is that the public is ready for this war to end. I wouldn't be swayed by Netanyahu's bellicose speech - he is a clever strategist and he had these words ready published before the end of the Sabbath to preempt Ben Gvir and Smotrich claiming he has abandoned his principles.

It's hard to be optimistic after the last few months, but having just checked in with the news after the Jewish sabbath ended, I am allowing the slightest glimpse of optimism. Because if this doesn't happen, we are stuck in an abyss with no way out.

Thanks @israelilefty I know I'm not alone in really appreciating your posts on this. Let's hope this turns out to be a path to peace of some sort and those poor hostages being brought home.

The CITME board can be an unpleasant place to lurk, that's for sure.

Totally agree @Att1cusPund - thank you Op. Praying for peace.

@israelilefty thank you for the update. its always great to hear from you.

what do you think realistically will happen to Netanyahu after this is over? do you really think he will be held to account for corruption?

I can't give any predictions about Netanyahu. Logically everything should point to him losing his bid for reelection and going on trial, but he is a master politician and I think it's far too early to point to his political demise.

Thank you for keeping us up to date @israelilefty I've learned a lot from you.

Wishing you and your neighbours peace and prosperity in the near future, and resolution for the hostages and their families.

The scars of this battle will last for a while on both sides.

Thank you @israelilefty.

I’ve just read your personal post from 20/12 that was copied above and found it very moving. Thank you 🙏

Hello @israelilefty
I have had this question for awhile regarding demolishing of Palestinian homes in the occupied west bank. I read a shocking figure that since Israel occupied the west bank, they have demolished approximately fifty five thousand Palestinian structures!
I see that whenever a Palestinian carries out a shooting or a more serious crime not only are they killed or detained but the Israeli authorities demolish their family home. Which means their whole family is punished for it.
I haven't seen this happening to the settlers for the same crimes in the occupied territories. Why is there such a huge disparity between how the Palestinians are treated compared to the settlers?
And is there not any outrage that small children and elderly can overnight become homeless, with their whole house demolished because of the actions of one member of their family?

I'll write a quick answer as it's late and this is really not something I'm an expert on. There is a detailed summary here by the Israeli Democracy Institute:

https://en.idi.org.il/articles/25615

See also this report by Israeli human rights organisation Btselem:

https://www.btselem.org/publications/summaries/200411_punitive_house_demolitions

In very short: the reason given for house demolitions in the case of the murder of Israelis is to deter potential future attackers, because someone who might be inclined to attack and who knows that they will probably die as a result might be dissuaded if there would be consequences for their family. Yes there are Israelis who do not agree with this. If you read the IDI article you will see that while this policy has broad public support, there has been considerable debate about it in the High Court and currently "there is a significant minority of justices on the [High] court who oppose the policy of house demolitions".

There have been petitions to demolish properties belonging to Jewish terrorists in the same way, but these were not supported by the court.

Most demolitions of houses and other buildings in the West Bank however are not for this reason - they are because they are deemed to be built without a permit, built on land appropriated by the army, etc. Another issue is the state claiming there was no permanent settlement on the land (I was actually at the Supreme Court hearing about Susya village back in the early 2000s). NB Jewish settler structures can also be demolished when they are deemed to have been built on private Palestinian land, and several settlements have been destroyed entirely for political reasons including the 2005 Gaza disengagement. See also today's news:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/ben-gvir-demands-netanyahu-fire-gallant-over-illegal-outpost-demolition/

Of course, however, far more Palestinian properties are destroyed than Jewish properties. You ask: "Why is there such a huge disparity between how the Palestinians are treated compared to the settlers?" - this inequality is the crux of the occupation in which one population exercises control over the lives of another population who do not have the rights of citizens, and it is why the occupation needs to end.

I wanted to add to the above answer: while the destruction of houses of Palestinian attackers as a deterrent does not sit well with me given the consequences for uninvolved members of the family, it's important to put the policy in a wider context: "martyrs" and prisoners are very highly respected in Palestinian society and the Palestinian Authority pays significant stipends to their families, including to the families of suicide bombers or terrorists who killed children. These payments have been subject to much condemnation by the West:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund

It is very, very difficult for Jewish Israelis to see families being paid for the violent death of their loved ones. Therefore those in support of the policy would argue that it creates a counterbalance so that those choosing to undertake a deadly attack would consider the negative consequences to their family's situation. This also possibly explains why the court did not use this policy in the case of Jewish terrorists - because the wider circumstances are not equivalent.

As with just about everything in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, it's complicated.

@israelilefty thank you for your answer. I have been reading into it and the more I read, it just cements how oppressive the occupation is, in almost all aspects of Palestinian life and I don't see any justification for this form of collective punishment. There has been no data collected to show if this method of 'deterrent' has even been effective.
Not to mention settler violence against Palestinians including their homes, property, land and even livestock has increased significantly over the years. What similar deterrent is there in place to stop them?

I can't imagine the trauma a child would feel watching their home be demolished because of the actions of a much older family member, and at times these demolitions have taken place when it hasn't even been proven that the family member was involved.

This was taken from btselem
The policy of punitive house demolition is, by definition, meant to harm people who have done nothing wrong and are suspected of no wrongdoing, but are related to Palestinians who attacked or attempted to attack Israeli civilians or security forces. In almost all cases, the individual who carried out the attack or planned to do so no longer lives in the house, as they were killed by Israeli security forces during the attack or were arrested and face a long prison sentence in Israel.

Jewish terrorists in the occupied territories are very rarely even charged with their crimes let alone punished. I can't see there being any sort of balance despite what the PA pays to the Palestinian families.
I mean just recently a large group of settlers attacked I believe atleast ten Palestinian villages, causing huge amounts of damage and even killed atleast one Palestinian, killed livestock, burnt down vehicles and I suppose attempted to act out on the slogan they often like to chant 'may your village burn' in reaction to the murder of an Israeli teenager.
I don't believe these violent perpetrators homes should be demolished but what is the deterrent for them? Most of them walk away scot free until the next chance they get to attack.

@Parkingt111 no comment on 'pay to slay'?

@stomachamelon , no comment on the obvious inequality @Parkingt111 and the op are talking about?

@Parkingt111The failure of Israeli police to enforce the law in instances of settler terrorism in the West Bank is shameful. This is an ongoing problem but has vastly escalated under the current government, in which ultra-right wing Ben Gvir, the political patron of the most extremist settlers, is the police minister. This is not an issue that goes without remark in Israeli society. During the anti-government protests protestors regularly used to shout "Where were you in Huwara?" at the police, when there were always enough police to stop antigovernment protestors from blocking a road, and they were not afraid to invoke huge amounts of force (water cannons and horses when they were not causing a danger) - but somehow there was nobody to stop settlers running rampage through Huwara. This is just one of the many reasons why political and societal change is needed urgently in Israel.