I'm a Jewish Israeli, AMA

[israelilefty]

Jewish Israeli here. I grew up in a different country but have lived and worked most of my adult life here, living a fairly normal everyday life in northern Israel. When I'm not working, I enjoy cooking and hiking, I'm religiously observant (but also feminist), I'm on the left of the political spectrum, and have everyday contact with people from quite a range of different perspectives - Israeli society is incredibly diverse.

I guess I see us portrayed in a kind of monolithic way in the English-language media, so I'm taking a deep breath and posting here...

Feel free to AMA, just remember you're asking a real person, not a government or military spokesman :) I'll try to answer from my personal standpoint. as long as it's asked in good faith.

Yes of course. We have been asking questions since the very first days. Especially as it became clear that there had been intelligence clues that were missed or not passed on, apparently because it was judged that Hamas was not interested in this kind of attack and/or was incapable of pulling it off. There have already been investigations of failures (official and also many by journalists) and there will be more, and we know that many army officials will resign the minute the war is over. There is also a lot of anger at Netanyahu who has so far not admitted responsibility and whose policy towards Gaza of "managing the conflict" which totally failed. The signs at protests say: "You are the in charge. You are responsible."

Thinking of you and hoping you stay safe. Governments play and their people suffer.

Praying for the safety of you & your family Op, & the safety of all the people in Israel.

Thanks @Parkingt111 , @stomachamelon, @Picoloangel and @Arconialiving . It's a very weird evening. The estimates are still that nobody wants a regional war, but it's concerning of course.

really hope you, your family and friends and all the people in the region are safe@israelilefty ♡

There is also a lot of anger at Netanyahu who has so far not admitted responsibility and whose policy towards Gaza of "managing the conflict" which totally failed. The signs at protests say: "You are the in charge. You are responsible."
I don't blame them. It must be scary for Israeli citizens to feel like the people who are meant to be looking out for the public's interests aren't doing that.

The latest escalation is deeply concerning because most average people on all sides don't want to be dragged into a regional war. It's always the average citizens who suffer when the people at the top play games.

Of course any escalation is concerning, especially given the huge proportions of last night's Iranian attack. But the feeling on the ground in Israel today and in the news is not one of an inevitable regional war. For now even Netanyahu has been very restrained in his language. I think that foreign news outlets are playing the reading of regional war up by portraying the two sides as having unrestrained belligerence. But I see all well-informed commentators saying that neither side is interested in a regional war (and the international community certainly isnt) and we knew already well before the drones and missiles arrived in Israel that they were aimed at military targets, and that while the spectacle was great, the damage would probably be limited. Sirens that sounded in civilian areas (which actually weren't many as relatively few drones and missiles made it as far as the Israeli border) were because of intercepts above, not because of missiles aimed there.

Today the feeling in Israel (aside from the rather surreal "wait, did that really happen?" kind of feeling) is that blocking this huge array of drones and missiles was a victory in itself. Commentators in Israel do point out, however, that this may sway international opinion closer to Israel's understanding of the current war, which has been since the beginning that this is essentially a proxy war against Iran, who funds, arms and trains Hamas and Hezbollah.

Meanwhile, sadly the only person physically hurt by the attacks seems to have been Amina al-Husseini a 7-year old Muslim-Israeli girl who was hit by a fragment of an interceptor rocket. Her situation is unstable and her life is in danger. I pray for her recovery.

Is it true that Isrealis think that the west bank belongs to them?
I asked someone online about the illegal settlements in the west bank
and the reply was, that I was at fault for thinking that the West bank belongs to Palestinians
Also, do you believe that immigrants jews have more right to the area than the people who were living there?
Many of the Palestinan Christians were originally Jewish, descendents of the jews who accepted Jesus Christ
so how did they lose their ethnicity? Like shouldn't they automatically be recognised as ethnic jews?

I'll try to answer your questions:

"Is it true that Isrealis think that the west bank belongs to them?"

Legally the West Bank has not been annexed to Israel so it is not part of the state of Israel. The status of various parts of the West Bank is currently stuck in the aftermath of the failed Oslo accords, and is awaiting future resolution. Some Israelis on the right think that the West Bank belongs to Israel and should be annexed, but this is a minority view. Most Israelis realistically think it will become part of a future Palestinian state even if they don't expect the conditions for that to happen to occur particularly soon. Most Israelis also don't really treat the West Bank as an integral part of Israel - they are more reluctant to go there as it is perceived as dangerous, or some on the left like me would prefer to avoid going there for political reasons, though I do go through the West Bank to visit friends or to get to somewhere like the Dead Sea.

’Also, do you believe that immigrants jews have more right to the area than the people who were living there?’

Not sure if this question refers to the West Bank or to Israel in general. If the former, see my previous answer. If the latter: I think the question is phrased in a disingenuous way. I believe that the State of Israel has the right to establish immigration policy. I think that while we are still within living memory of the Holocaust it is very important to most Jewish people worldwide that Israel exists as a safe option for immigration of Jews (by the way as I pointed out somewhere above, Armenia, whose citizens suffered a genocide, also has a similar immigration policy). Palestinian citizens of Israel (those who stayed in what became Israel after 1948) have and should continue to have equal rights as citizens, and every effort should be made to ensure that those rights are not compromised.

Separately, I think that the Palestinian refugee problem urgently needs a just and lasting resolution. I don't think that such a resolution should involve all of the descendants of those who left and/or were expelled in 1948 having an automatic right to "return" to locations within the state of Israel that their ancestors left over 75 years ago, just as I don't think that the descendants of Israeli Jews who fled Iraq, Syria, Egypt and other Middle Eastern countries should automatically have the right to "return" to those countries. Such movements might be seen to correct historical injustices but at the price of creating vast new injustice and instability. The implication of a full Palestinian right to return to areas inside the State of Israel is essentially the destruction of the State of Israel by demographic means as Jews will become a minority. See previous posts of mine for why I think that two state solution is the only practical way to solve the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

When people say "the people who were living there" (in 1948) they generally intend not only the

Of course it is essential that there should be a just and permanent resolution to the Palestinian refugee problem. However, I don't believe that the State of Israel should be

“Many of the Palestinan Christians were originally Jewish, descendents of the jews who accepted Jesus Christ so how did they lose their ethnicity? Like shouldn't they automatically be recognised as ethnic jews?“

People should define their identity themselves rather than have outsiders do that for them, and I'm not aware of Palestinian Christians wanting to be considered as ethnic Jews. Second, being Jewish isn't only a matter of ethnicity - it's also a group identity and a religion. There's no such thing as automatically being recognised as Jewish on the basis of DNA if you don't have any connection to the Jewish community or religion.

Oops noticed two unfinished sentences in the previous post, ignore them, I was posting late at night when very tired :)

There's no such thing as automatically being recognised as Jewish on the basis of DNA if you don't have any connection to the Jewish community or religion.

It seems complicated. If you are descended from Jewish family on your father's side, but non-religious and estranged from that side, are you then not recognised as Jewish even in part?

Or if it's the same situation but on your mother's side, I'm wondering too.

For the purposes of immigration to Israel, you are considered Jewish if you have one Jewish grandparent or have converted to Judaism, unless you have converted to another religion (so Palestinian Christians wouldn't count even if they do have a Jewish grandparent). Obviously the definition of who is Jewish is contested and is complicated by the fact that it is both a religion and an ethnicity.

Thank you for that. I have rather a complicated family with many branches, and it's certainly food for thought.

My understanding (not that I've looked into it in much detail as I have no plans to move to Israel, now or in the future) is that you would "count" in the circumstances you describe. My dad was Jewish and I was not brought up in that (or any) religion. Not sure about the estrangement thing or how that would or could have a bearing either way. As far as I'm aware, I could move to Israel with my family on that basis if I wanted to.

I have in fact acquired a German passport since Brexit without the need for a language exam on the basis of my dad's ethnicity and the fact that Germany's racial laws of the 1930s stripped my grandparents of their German citizenship- not quite the same, I realise, but some have said to me that they think that's unfair (I say boohoo, not out loud of course). I agree with the OP that countries should be permitted to decide their own immigration rules as long as they are in line with international law (looking at the UK here 😉)

How are people reconciling themselves to their government letting children starve a few miles away? Does anyone talk about it at all or admit to feeling guilt or discomfort?

If you read back, the OP has address this question.

@nlpee "what an original question..."

Why is it these types of questions are used to comment on valid posts? Does the truth make you uncomfortable?

Sorry @israelileftywas cooking something . I know that you personally have experience feelings of guilt and helplessness but I mean the Israeli Public generally. When you started thIs tread, we understood from you that people were reeling in shock and had to come to the immediate aid of people closely connected who were victims of the attacks. There was also so much propaganda on both sides but now the crisis is becoming so much more imminent and the images of starvation are being independently verified- do you see a change and if so, in what direction?

I think people ask because it’s the part that is so impossible to understand. I agree I’d be interested in how people in Israel feel about it now? Is their resolve hardened or are they now as bemused as the rest of us at what has unfolded?

@israelilefty I know today is Friday so you are presumably going to be away from the thread due to shabbat soon so obviously no rush... just wanted to ask a question with a slightly different slant.

am I right in thinking that Israel has never had a left wing government? could just be that I am woefully ignorant.... but just get the sense that Israeli society is pretty right leaning? (again prepared to be told I am wrong!)... do you feel that way? what do you think the future holds for the left in Israel?

and in your personal experience, how do left leaning ideals interface with judaism/orthodox Judaism?

hope you have a lovely weekend

I'm obviously not the OP but Israel was basically founded as a left wing state. The idea of a kibbutz is a very socialist one. My grandfather moved to Israel because he was left wing and wanted to live in a left wing society.

Israel has gone the same way as a lot of the world with becoming more right wing. It's not unique to them. Even the rest of the middle east is more conservative than it used to be, not to mention Europe and obviously the US who might genuinely be electing Trump again 🤯

I'm personally hoping it's a bit of a blip and that governments all over become more centrist and therefore less extreme with time, but I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

Just to clarify: I answered in the context of the question about Palestinian Christians having Jewish ancestry: proving Jewish DNA from many, many centuries back isn’t a factor used in proving Jewish status or eligibility to immigrate to Israel.

Jewish status is determined by matrilineal descent or by conversion (some progressive movements also accept patrilineal descent; in Orthodox circles patrilineal descent doesn’t make someone Jewish, but they are considered to be “of Jewish seed” and in some circumstances a less rigorous conversion process might be required of them if they chose to become Jewish).

Eligibility to immigrate to Israel under the Law of Return, as mentioned, is conferred by having at least 1 Jewish grandparent or having converted to Judaism, and not having embraced another religion (or being the spouse of someone who fits the criteria). This means that there are some “Jewish” citizens of Israel (as in, not members of another religion) who are not actually considered Jewish by the rabbinate.

When someone needs to confirm Jewish status eg in order to immigrate to Israel, it’s done by historical documents like wedding documents, not by DNA tests.