I grew up in a cult. AMA *Trigger warning CSA*

[ADifferentPathAuDHD]

With great trepidation especially as I'll be quite identifiable, but: I grew up in the uber-secretive 2x2 cult in the US. Think long dresses and uncut hair for women, no makeup or piercings, "meetings" in homes a bare minimum of twice a week but often with "gospel meetings" on top of that. Oh, and a shitload of child sexual abuse by pedo preachers and elders and men brought in from prison for CSA, I'm not even joking. Obviously everyone else was going to hell except us...

@CreationNat1on Interesting. I wonder if the similarities are why we were taught so explicitly that Catholics were 100000000% wrong? Perhaps that would have been a natural next step for people having 2x2 doubts otherwise. There's no belief in the trinity for 2x2s (or not supposed to be although some people follow the bible quietly on that point) so that too makes it difficult to leave and just join another church.

The out-but-isolated point is really interesting. I guess having been burnt, they aren't keen to expose themselves to another church which might also have a CSA problem; this has been the case with plenty of churches. Some are still trying to replicate the meetings without workers just for the fellowship with others who understand how meetings work, but even the hymnbook is a hodgepodge of hymns taken from other churches then run thru workers' translation services to make them seem more 2x2. One hymn mentions the "wreath of tears" which is apparently a Catholic phrase that slipped past the censors. We thought that all our hymns were written by the workers. Imagine my surprise when I saw on TV a stadium singing Abide With Me together...how on earth did they learn OUR song???!

Unreal,

The rivalry of the religions, religious bigots like the Catholics and the Protestants, and both religions are essentially identical, or at least the differences are so minor but the religious superiority is completely ingrained. They wouldn't even talk to each other.

I follow a few ex cult, Amish and Mormon on tiktok and a running theme with several of them is the hurt that people knew of abuse and turned the other way instead of helping hurts more than the abuse or shunning.

Do you keep well away from all religion now? Are you permanently paranoid that you'll get sucked in to something else?

@jay55 Things go really topsy-turvy when you leave a cult. The people that I most respected and revered are now the people I have the most disgust for. They were the ones covering up abuse, making excuses for abusers, directing people away from the police and towards forgiveness and care for pedos' souls (who cares about the kids, they'll get over it = mindset). I'm very glad that my parents believed me; it is so much harder for the people who weren't believed as children. Some children were abused by multiple men so I'm guessing there was communication between these pedos as they arrived and left fields/parishes as to who the vulnerable kids were.

Yes I'm paranoid about organised religion now. It has been a way to control women and children and allow men to do what they want and still be respected. Although of course I miss singing hymns with my huge extended family and always having them around - I think that is pretty normal for people leaving these groups. Singing and being together and eating together is something I miss. But I could never, ever go back to a mindset that men's souls are more important than safeguarding women and children's bodies and minds.

Awww, it's heartbreaking, I m so glad you are out.

I’m so sorry you went through this.

Thank you so much for sharing,

I was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness and the similarities between that and your upbringing are striking. I have not heard of the 2x2s before.

The difference is JWs are more visible but otherwise you could be writing about them pretty much. I know how strong you are.

I have never heard of the 2x2s before, so my question is why the need for so much secrecy? Obviously there are other more "extreme" or strict religions like the Mormons, Amish, Davidians etc, but they are known about.

Do they keep the religion a secret because they know aspects of what they are doing (eg the CSA) are illegal?

Also, why were you allowed to go to university (I assume that wasn't typical)?

Did you go to a normal school or were you homeschooled?

@ADifferentPathAuDHD

So glad you got out, well done

I grew up in 'The Children of God/ The Family', a cult which sounds so very similar, most of what you've written is familiar. Excusing & allowing paedophiles, spanking children, meetings, conventions, long hair and no make up, no mixing with outsiders and so much secrecy. Communal living in homes, Patchy Home schooling, no TV, only selected books.
Plus more twisted sexual beliefs and practices.

And of course everyone else is going to hell.

I left in my teens and am now in my 40s. The mental adjustment of being an outsider within normal society, with no shared reference points, is just as hard as the physical leaving.

How have you found integrating into the rest of society? I find it hard to know how much of my past to share, and even now I hold myself apart somehow, it's hard to let people in.

@RJnomore1 The similarities with the JWs have been mentioned by family before (we have a relative who is JW) especially that the 2x2s used to go door-to-door. Didn't the JWs have a recent CSA major scandal too?

Do you hold any of it against your parents for not protecting you more? The beatings of your brother and not stopping the sexual abuse?

@CountingDownTheHours That is a very important question: why the secrecy. Wouldn't an evangelical church want to gain more followers? Especially if they were the only ones going to heaven? The secrecy is disturbing given the crazy rates of CSA. Apparently years ago the top guys decided to stop evangelizing and maintain what they had, prioritising the annual "conventions" which are closed to outsiders. This makes sense in a way because adding new people with modern views on law, child abuse, and rape wouldn't go well for them. Unless you've been fully brainwashed, it doesn't make sense keeping pedos in meetings (church services) and as workers (ministers)!

University - my parents were way more flexible than some. As the years have gone past, more parents are allowing daughters to go to university which has made a positive change. The workers were early adapters of mobile phones and laptops ironically, in a church where we weren't allowed to have TVs or radios in the home, and that has spread to the rest of the Friends. Which is a good thing except for some of what some workers have been using the internet for.

The lack of shared reference points is huge isnt it? The language being so similar stunned me - the truth, meetings, etc.

yes to CSA there’s a lot of investigations on court cases going on at different places around the world. Lots of examples of it being hushed up, kept internal, people moved, is d so on.

I wasn't homeschooled - my momma didn't want us around the house all day! Other relatives have homeschooled but surprisingly most go to school. I think there is an element of depressed mothers in there, like my own, who really need the break from kids and husband each day. You've never seen so many weeping women in church services on a weekly basis. One of my DC commented on the women being so skinny and unhappy and that is spot-on.

@wittyy Oh my goodness, yes that sounds similar! I'm so sorry that you've had to experience much of the same. I've got to wonder if The Family is based on some of the same people, if it started in the UK? There were the Cooneyites who split from William Irvine and it was a time of starting new evangelical churches and of course that led to splinter churches when people didn't agree. The 2x2s were called the Black Stockings or something like that early on by others, since the women all had to wear heavy black or brown stockings, regardless of the weather. But we didn't live communally, just the workers are homeless so live with Friends, moving after a few days or a week - depending on how comfortable the home is and how good the food is, I reckon (;

I think it was easier for me to integrate into society because I quickly married and moved to the UK, so I was literally integrating to a new society anyways! I had to learn the rules, I watched ALLLL the TV lol, I watched and learned. But only recently since the Dean Bruer scandal have I found myself talking to friends I've known for decades about it. How crazy is that, right? We've grown up so differently that I guess we find it hard to explain quite how it was. I'm hoping Netflix or Amazon Prime cover the 2x2 story, just to make it easier for people to understand! I watched Women Talking recently and that about broke me. So many sects causing so much damage.

Please feel free to message me if you want. And definitely share your story when you feel ready, with friends and work etc. People need to know this is happening to women and children in closed societies. We are the survivors who won't shut up about abuse. Because we know it is still happening today.

Oh and apparently the "convention" idea is based on Keswick Conventions, which is still running today here in the UK. Except the 2x2s have never moved on, so nothing separate for children, no big screens, just workers standing on the platform in the front, talking into a microphone for hours upon hours. For 4 days.

@Squiggles23 No, never. My parents were born into it and so were their parents. They didn't know any better. Also, we have a lot of neurodiversity in our family and I think that the people who stay are those who like the routine, the black and white rules (although it is confusing with the rules being unwritten), basically being told what to do and when. And being told not to mix socially outside of the group wasn't exactly difficult, ha. Oh and it wasn't just that brother that was smacked, just that he was definitely the black sheep who didn't behave in meeting!

The most important thing for me is that they believed me, they have continued to believe the victims, and they quit the only church they'd ever known when they knew that our case wasn't isolated. Even though they lost their friends and my mom is now shunned.

I'm in absolute awe of you. How you have managed to develop into what is clearly a well rounded, respectful human being, despite being subject to a horribly dysfunctional upbringing is a massive tribute to you. Truly incredible.
I'm so sorry for what you experienced ❤️

Sorry you went through that 💔

I can see why someone would compare it to Roman Catholicism due to it being a works based doctrine.

Whereas true biblical christianity is not based on your 'do' it's your 'who'
In other words salvation is a free GIFT not based on works lest any man should boast.

I'm so sorry you went through that. Have you reported it to https://www.advocatesforthetruth.com/ ? It might help build a case against a predator.

60 Minutes program in Australia did a piece on it. I haven't watched it so not sure if it's the whole thing and hope it's the right link.

I'm also so sorry you went through this and hope you now have support. I recently worked with a woman telling her story of living in a cult and, despite working with many other non-cult sexual abuse survivors, I think it was the most shocking story I've ever heard. You deserve a wonderful life and all the peace in the world.

@CultTimes Delighted to see AFTT suggested! Yes, I've reported to CL and she was so incredibly kind. I was on their facebook for awhile but found it too upsetting, so much abuse happened/is happening.
I saw the original Australia 60 Minutes programme before they removed it from youtube but I'm glad that this shorter version is still available. There are lots of interesting podcasts now too about the 2x2s, and a few youtube videos. But I'm guessing you perhaps already know about them!

@ADifferentPathAuDHD I’m so sorry you had this upbringing, but so glad you got out.
Recently my young adult DC got caught up in a cult - not a big organisation- but the methodology and resulting issues he has all fit the cult ‘experience’ - thankfully no SA - was the first thing I asked.
It really messed with his head and he is struggling mentally, although has come a long way in the 4 months he has been out of the situation. We are supporting him and he’s got some professional support etc, but finds the post-cult counselling too triggering atm.
How long do you think it takes to recover psychologically, do you think complete recovery is possible esp if you weren’t in the situation for long (approx a year in his case).

@Isthisrealorjustfantasy So sorry to hear that. I've no idea about shorter-term cult membership recovery as that wasn't my experience but I've found it useful to find out about other similar groups so that it feels less lonely and less like we were being dumb. We were brainwashed, and that is very different and hard to explain. Knowing that what I was subjected to was the same for many, many others and that I can speak up and try to prevent future abuse is helpful. Hopefully in time he may feel the same way, that he has escaped something damaging and that is now part of his life story that he can share as a warning to others if and when he's ready to do so.

Thanks @ADifferentPathAuDHD - he has been amazing and told some new uni friends and also some (but not all) old school friends. Because the ‘recruiter’ if you like, was actually someone from his school, he’s very wary about telling some others.
It’s very scary how quickly the brain ‘adapts’ to a new way of thinking - he just turned into a different type of person but is getting his old self back slowly.
I’ve done a lot of reading & listening around cults - my DS’s experience wasn’t quite the ‘norm’ and because he got out quickly we didn’t find out the ultimate goal of the leader. DS hasn’t ruled out an eventual sexual element, but thankfully no children involved.