I grew up in a cult. AMA *Trigger warning CSA*

[ADifferentPathAuDHD]

With great trepidation especially as I'll be quite identifiable, but: I grew up in the uber-secretive 2x2 cult in the US. Think long dresses and uncut hair for women, no makeup or piercings, "meetings" in homes a bare minimum of twice a week but often with "gospel meetings" on top of that. Oh, and a shitload of child sexual abuse by pedo preachers and elders and men brought in from prison for CSA, I'm not even joking. Obviously everyone else was going to hell except us...

Oh, and before you think Oh what crazy Americans, this cult was started here in the UK by a man named William Irvine. There are "meetings" in homes that my visiting family have attended in Wokingham and Bracknell, and a gospel meeting in Fleet Hampshire. Oh and a now-shut "convention" in Somerset, which is a 4 day test of mothers' nerves of keeping babies and toddlers quiet in a group meeting, 3 times a day, for 4 days. Such fun, such fun.

I'm sorry you went through this. My question: do you think banning these groups/their activities actually helps the children involved, or will the abuse still happen but it will be more 'underground'?

How did you get out? Are your relatives still in it? How are you?

@CatherinedeBourgh Absolutely banning these groups is the only option. At the moment, it is so secretive that to find out where the current meetings around us in Berkshire are at, I'd have to get someone on the inside to ask their local "worker" or preacher, who would email someone higher up who would email a higher-up in the UK, who would find out and provide an address. So that level of secrecy, the fact that it all happens in private homes, and the insanely high levels of CSA mean that it is basically a pedo ring. And we should never allow that, no matter what religion.

@AnneLovesGilbert I stopped attending meetings when I was around 17 years old, which of course was very embarrassing for my parents, who were supposed to have raised me by the rod so I wouldn't do something like refusing as a teenager. I was allowed to attend university at 18 and swiftly made my exit.

Getting out of a cult is 90% in the mind in my experience, and 10% physically moving somewhere else. I wasn't shunned simply because I have a huge amount of close family on the inside and I was willing to wear long dresses and attend meetings and grow my hair out for visits when I went back to see family once I'd had kids. Or maybe I was shunned by non-family but didn't notice because I wasn't remotely interested in keeping in touch...who knows.

So in March of last year, the overseer (high-up worker/preacher who runs a state or area) in my family's area was found dead in a motel room and a letter from another overseer was released into the wild, thank goodness, stating that the dead overseer had been leading a sinful life including abusing children. This was massive and started a worldwide time of reckoning for the cult, as people are now using the internet to keep in touch with other "friends" as they call each other. It was then brought to light that there were indeed many pedos in "The Work" as preachers and instead of being kicked out, they would be moved to another area or country! At this point, my parents had had enough and stopped attending "meetings". I only have 1 sibling left who is "in" and yes I worry terribly about the children but there is literally nothing I can do to persuade them to leave.

Oh and as a child victim of Child Sexual Abuse in the 2x2s, I've been soooo stressed for months and months, reliving my abuse as more and more similar stories come out. I'm not OK. We all thought that our abuse was a one-off, an isolate incident. It wasn't. I'll try to find an article or two about how more pedos were knowingly brought in from prisons and families who objected were basically told to shut up or leave and go to hell. (It's an exclusive doctrine church so people who don't "profess" i.e. formally join go to hell - so telling someone to go find another church is saying you're condemning them to hell)

Sexual Abuse in "The Truth" Church (workersect.org)
So one of the "workers", Jerome Frandle, was prosecuted for not reporting CSA. His defence in court was to say that there is no such organization, and that he isn't a preacher so didn't have to report. It didn't work, but that is how this group rolls. They aren't an established church, they have no name although others call them the 2x2s and they call themselves The Friends, The Truth or a non-denominational group straight from the shores of Galilee, try sounding like a normal kid spouting that when people ask you what church you're from...

News – WINGS for Truth This is a website set up by Friends and one ex-2x2 who has written a massive tome about the group. It charts current abuse cases. Victims are starting to feel OK about coming forward although within those who are remaining "In", there's a lot of disbelief about the abuse, including an "Overseer" who doesn't believe that one of his workers committed abuse despite said worker admitting to it. It is batshit.

How do they justify it to the parents? Also how do they get around no sex before marriage if they are trying to be super righteous?

Did you meet other children who made it out?

Were there deaths?

I’m really sorry that you were involved in that. Do you feel able to make a safeguarding report or perhaps phone the NSPCC for advice? There are also several threads in the Philosophy and Religion section that might be helpful.

A few resources:
‘recovering from religion’ website
https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/

A podcast called ‘I was a teenage fundamentalist’. https://pod.link/1558606464

A blog called ‘God Loves Women’ - the author has expertise around spiritual abuse and domestic violence.
https://mrsglw.wordpress.com/

No question, just sending you lots of love and respect

@Liloandswitch As with many high-control fundamentalist religions, there are unwritten rules and most of these are aimed at women and children. So while men have affairs, young men have sexual relationships and so on, it is the women who are kicked to the curb if they "get themselves pregnant" or disbelieved when they are raped. It is a deep mindset. We were utterly brainwashed. My parents were asked by an elder (respected Friend with meetings in their home) not to report me being abused, despite the pedo having 3 other known victims at the time. Luckily my parents ignored that. My abuser is in prison.

As for what Workers and Elders have been telling the Friends to justify pedos being kept in meetings, or even as freaking ELDERS of meetings so in their homes: "Professionals have advised that those who have a spiritual support group have a much higher success not repeating offence than those completely ostracized from society. If any effort could save one more child from tragedy (whether in our fellowship or not) it seems worth it." Glenn Gasser letter to Wisconsin friends re former prisoners – WINGS for Truth Shut up women, this pedo's soul is more important than your concerns for your kids.

How has it affected your relationship with your parents and also with your children?

As for meeting others who left & deaths:
Back in the olden days, there wasn't an easy way to meet others who left or were excommunicated, unless you were in touch with them at the time. So there was a mass excommunication event in Alberta, Canada which affected Montanans as well but I've only learned more about that from my parents who will now talk about it now that they're out, and from internet sites that have been set up since. Otherwise, when people leave, they disappear, like they never existed. Not really spoken about, not contacted, they're dead to the remainers. So about a year ago, someone asked a family member about an up and coming basketball player who we're related to. We were like, huh? Don't know him, not related. Except it turns out we absolutely are but his family were shunned because one of their members was gay and got AIDS so we didn't even know they existed. We knew nothing about this. Our grandparents would have known and the scandal would have been whispered about by women in kitchens but we were clueless.

Deaths: looking back, now everything I think of a suicide of a Friend, of course I have to wonder if they had been abused. It seems likely. There was a famous sibling suicide case in Australia years ago where a brother and sister killed themselves rather than go to Convention, and that made the news. Australian 2x2s also featured on 60 Minutes Australia about hidden and covered-up CSA within the group.

How and why did your parents get involved in the cult?

Gosh I’m so sorry you went through this. At what age did you realise this wasn’t normal?

Thanks @BadSkiingMum . My abuse was in the US and my abuser is in prison. I do think that the NSPCC should know about the group, as well as school staff, because they're so under the radar that even talking about their "church" just won't make sense to outsiders. If I say, a Friend touched me at meeting, what does that mean to outsiders? A child at a playdate? A Friend can be a 70 previously convicted pedo, and meeting is the secretive weekly meetups in private homes. There are no safeguarding procedures, no board to go to with problems, no nothing.

So if you ever hear of a very modestly dressed child say that their church doesn't have a name, be very aware that they're likely to have much higher than average percentages of pedos in their lives. Did I mention, "workers" are homeless? They only stay in homes. Yes, these pedos who are relocated to other "fields" or parishes if parents complain about abuse, go straight into new family homes with unsuspecting parents allowing them full trust because that's what we've been brainwashed to do.

@Gnomegnomegnome Thankfully my parents left this year when the abuse scandal came to light. They refused to go to "meetings" and listen to pedos and pedo protectors preach at them. We've become closer but they've also been very depressed as it was all they knew for their entire lives. I have a weird relationship with the sibling who is still "in" but we get along - but I'd not leave my kids with him now because he's shown such terrible judgement in remaining in. He's not a pedo but he is protecting the reputations of pedos and their protectors.

It reminds me of the Catholic Church.

I m sorry you were sexual ly, emotionally and psychologically abused. I hope you find peace and self soothing care.

Can you form new friendships, or is it difficult?

How are you financially, has the cult upbringing made it difficult for you to function in the non cult world?

As for the relationship with my children, I'm so grateful that they never had to go through what I did. My children are neurodivergent and they would have struggled so badly if brought up that way. It was common for children to be taken out of meetings to be spanked, including an infamous 4 month old baby who was spanked for crying at convention - and a popular Worker/preacher praised her when other parents were shocked.

There is no "Sunday School" option. You're born, you come to meetings as soon as your mother is well enough, you're kept quiet and learn the unwritten rules very quickly. One of my siblings has ADHD and was forever being taken out for a beating because he really struggled to sit in silence for 1.5 hours. Caring elders would have everyone stand for hymns and thank goodness, us kids needed that movement break!!

My kids have attended meetings and one convention on visits back and are very grateful that I didn't bring them up that way! Obviously I'd never go to a meeting or convention again - turns out that was a huge risk however I did watch over them like a hawk at the time.

@olderbutwiser My parents were born into the 2x2s, as were their parents. My great-grandmother joined way back when. There was never a question of not being a 2x2 for my parents or grandparents. It is a way of life, like being Amish and having your community made for you. We weren't supposed to be friends with worldly people unless we were trying to get them to come to meetings. Funnily enough, not many people wanted to join us...

Leaving such a close community is harder than I think most people can imagine, unless they've been Amish/Mennonite/Hutterites or so on. Our lives revolved around Sunday meeting, sometimes Sunday afternoon gospel meetings as well, Wednesday night meetings, sometimes Thursday night gospel meetings...I have no idea how I managed to get my homework done because meetings were always the priority. One simply did not miss a meeting. We were forever in the car, driving here and there to far-flung meetings. Workers and overseers decided where to send us so even though we had a meeting about 5 miles down the road, we'd often drive 30+ miles one-way to a different meeting.

Now my parents sit at home with their bibles all week and feel sad. They can't bring themselves to join a worldly church because they've been hearing their entire lives how everyone else is getting it wrong and no one else has a chance of making it to heaven.

@Sundaefraise So my family is quite neurodiverse...which includes being logical. My parents couldn't answer my rational questions but always said although it didn't all make sense, they couldn't find a better way and this was the way to get to heaven. But I simply couldn't conform as an older teenager any longer because I could see the abusers being allowed to keep abusing and that didn't seem like something Jesus would allow for his children. I couldn't see why we would dress so weirdly when Jesus fit in with his contemporaries. Even to this day, I have a visceral reaction to that sort of fundie cosplay dressing like Toast dresses and the new floor-length M&S denim skirts. It isn't fun for me to see people pretending to be like the Duggars clothing-wise when I know full well what it is like to be that subjugated girl, having to try to run in PE wearing a dress and knowing it looks stupid.

@CreationNat1on Funnily enough, the most preached against church was the Catholics! Despite the overseer of the world, Ray Hoffman, being an ex-Catholic. (We didn't know Ray was overall overseer until recently as these things are all very hush-hush)
I guess I don't see too many similarities as Catholics at school didn't dress differently and church attendance seemed more optional rather than driving thru a blizzard to attend Every.Single.Meeting or going when sick enough to function, despite getting others sick.

Making friends was OK as I had mentally checked out as a teenager so didn't see others as the devil's spawn. OK so yeah I am more judgemental than I'd like to be but that's something I'm working on, even in my 40s. I've had a protest cut recently where I had my hair cut down to a couple of inches, and that was partially to prove to my family that women with short hair aren't hussys and that old testament verse about a woman's hair being her crown of glory is just one old, possibly mistranslated bit of a huge bible.

Financially, because I was allowed to go to university despite not having a penis, yeah I'm fine lol. I didn't talk about my upbringing at all in my 20s and 30s. It was just too weird and the wording is so different that a conversation about the 2x2s has to be constantly translated into worldly-speak. Friends, meetings, non-denominational no-name shores of Galilee, conventions, fields, field lists, professing....these are all words that 2x2s use naturally but can mean different things to outsiders.

The fundamentalist catholics from 2 generations or so ago were similar, the going to church through blizzards, it trumping everything, the modest cloths. Google the "house of prayer", of you could be bothered.

Congratulations on putting the work in to deprogramme yourself.

It's fascinating, thanks for sharing. I feel sorry for your parents too, out but isolated, it seems to be what happens to people once they break free, it takes a long time to unpick the dogma and damage.

What a terrible ordeal 😢💔