I'm a Sleep Scientist

[Goodnightythen]

I specialised in neurodevelopmental conditions and the importance of sleep in our children's brain development. I worked a lot with children with Autism as well as other frontal lobe related conditions such as ADHD, FASD, ED, ODD, PD, etc.
I don't do much work in sleep labs anymore but AMA!

@Annaishere Weird isn’t it? Our brains are complicated things.

Yeah it is weird

I’m fairly sure serotonin levels are lowest between 3.30 and 6 am; there’s even a book/poem written by a chronic severe depressive called something like ‘4.36 am’. (Shame the OP isn’t here to give us the benefit of her knowledge). All I know is that I regularly wake up about 6 feeling like there’s no point in being awake for a world that’s got no future, then find myself becoming steadily more rational over the next couple of hours, until by 8 and a cup of tea, I’m almost human.

@NumberFortyNorhamGardens lol I'm laughing as I wake up at 8.15 and I'm grumpy until 11 ;(

I’ve always had very weird sleep habits. I’ve never been a morning person but In my 20s I could easily sleep ALL weekend if I had no plans - I would wake up late, drag myself out of bed for food, go back to bed, sleep all night again. No matter how much sleep I have it’s never enough, and I can sleep pretty much any time anywhere! It’s nothing to do with feeling depressed etc, it’s a physical craving for sleep. First thing I think if i a day to myself is - yes, a nap! (Sad I know)

the problem is it makes me very unproductive - obviously I have to get up for work, or nowadays with the kids, but it’s a huge difficulty and what worries me is whenever I wake up (from night sleep or a nap) it’s like moving through treacle. I literally feel like I’ve been drugged. I know nobody springs out of bed in an instant but it is SO hard to wake up. It’s like my eyes have been glued shut.

but - once I’ve been up half an hour or so I’m fine - and I don’t usually get massively tired during the day. So it can’t be anything like chronic fatigue surely. I’ve had my iron and vitamin D levels checked in the past with no issues found.

wtf is going on? Am I just a massively lazy fucker?

Hello OP@Goodnightythen , do you interpret dreams?

I have had a reoccurring dream throughout my life where I dream that I get married a second time to my husband. Never divorced or separated , just a full second wedding after the first. I have always wondered what that must mean and why has it happened numerous times?
Thanks.

My 6yo DD has a chronic pain problem that has been under investigation for several months. She’s typically a perfectly good sleeper, but every 5-6 weeks when her pain is particularly bad, she’ll have a night with only about 4 hours of sleep. The pain eventually subsides, but she’s (understandably!) exhausted for a few days after. Any tips for helping her to bounce back from a rest perspective, while we work at figuring out the underlying problem?

Is it normal (or rather, how rare is it) to have absolutely zero sleep pattern at all, ever, at any point in your life? I mean, to have a sleep pattern that is different every day, every week, changes constantly (constantly veers from nocturnal to normal, bounces between insomnia and sleeping 4 hours a day for weeks, to hypersomnia and sleeping 14 hours a day for weeks) - literally just zero pattern at all?

I can't even explain it to doctors since they just can't wrap their brains around it, and just keep repeating "yes but what time do you normally go to sleep?"

Any strategies for nightshift workers ? I feel so groggy the day I finish nights and find it so hard to switch. The day of my nightshift I cannot sleep which means I’m up for 24hr. I work in a hospital in a job where being alert is pretty crucial and my department is busy all night!

I find melatonin gets me to sleep post nights, but I still wake up a couple of hours later.

I've had insomnia for 3 days. Whhhyy

Thank you for this thread. My dd age 14, add and my ds age 10 asd, have very ds regulated sleep patterns. This effects my ds going to school as well as other aspects if his life. Melatonin quite often sends him to sleep if I can get it in to him! Dd is immune to it. Any ideas of what I can do?

Are you going to bed at around the same time every day? If so it's your sleep cycle length that is like clockwork - usually something like 90 minutes. You're probably having a few 90 minute cycles and awakening at the end, waking at 3.30, and having another 2x90 minutes to wake at 6am

Sleep stages 1-4 are characterised by low heart rate and deep, dreamless sleep. You're not getting enough REM. You can't die from this but it might be an idea to get a sleep tracking app like Sleepwave to see whether you are getting quality sleep?

This is also a type of parasomnia and common in children with Autism and ADHD; usually they grow out of it. If he's still doing it at 7 I would ask the GP for a referral to a pediatric sleep specialist - waiting lists are long - but they can look at any underlying issues.

Hypnic jerk https://www.sleepfoundation.org/parasomnias/hypnic-jerks

Thank you, very interesting. I’ve just been reading about REM & I’m currently doing a lot of what it says don’t do in order to ensure REM!

I’ve downloaded sleep wave ready for tonight! Hope it doesn’t pick up my dog sleeping!

This could be a number of things. Evolutionarily humans have always slept in split nights so the fact both your children are doing this may be a genetic or hereditary trait.. It could be to do with bedtimes, developmental traits (some kids just do split nights, and grow out of it like DC1), sleep timings, learned sleep behaviours. Lots of reasons but you must be exhausted!

I have two questions (sorry!)

I am diagnosed with ADHD and I think I might have Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder, as if I have to get up before 8am my energy level for the entire day will just be tanked. Luckily I can currently work around this, but obviously it's a bit unusual (plus, I feel like people assume that it's just laziness??) Is there anything that can be done for this and is it even worth looking for diagnosis? What would that process be - I see a psychiatrist for my ADHD and of couse I also have a GP.

Secondly - my 5yo has some weird speech patterns (IMO) - most of the time he is totally fine and articulate and can speak in full sentences, indeed, he will make very long complicated explanations (which he absolutely cannot be interrupted from) but then when he's tired, overwhelmed, in sensory overload he reverts to almost truncated speech like single words, or combinations of 2-3 words mashed together in ways that don't really make proper sentences. We can understand him but e.g. his teachers struggle. Is this indicative of anything or is it relatively normal?

Stuff like exploding head syndrome was really interesting. Also the EEG studies that show people in psychosis have similar brain activity to REM sleep - so when someone is in psychosis they are awake and in a dream state.

Oh and my husband regularly has loud snoring/gasping in the middle of the night, am I right to keep nagging him to go to GP with query sleep apnoea?

Oh oh and (sorry now I'm going WAY over my fair share! Feel free to just pick one of my four ) When I wake up, no matter what time (even if it's after the 8am I mentioned previously), whether nap or night time sleep, I have SUCH a strong desire to go back to sleep, it's like a physical weight on me, everything feels so heavy and slow and it would be the nicest thing in the world to just drift back off again. I think I could actually sleep indefinitely. I really have to take some extreme measures to fight this (QR code alarm clock with the relevant QR code in another room.) This does not ever go away, regardless of how much sleep I have had. It will still occur at 2pm in the afternoon, though the later I sleep in, the more weird my dreams will become. In fact, the only times that I feel alert soon after waking is when I think there is an emergency. Is this normal or is there something wrong with me?

Oh I get that - exploding head syndrome. Also alice in wonderland syndrome though much much less now I am grown up.

Hi

I have terrible trouble getting off to sleep. It takes me sometimes an hour to fall asleep.

I've tried not being on my phone before bed. Reading before bed. Lavender pillow mist. Listening to a guided meditation. I even use liquid melatonin (which is the only thing that helps).

I find it's hard to clear my mind and switch off. It also doesn't help that I wake up when my husband comes to bed after me.

Any advice please.

Same as I said to a PP -

1. Find a CSHQ and scoring sheet to identify the main problems. Here is the CSHQ - you can google the score sheet too: njaap.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Childrens-Sleep-Habits-Questionnaire.pdf
2. Find a range of sleep interventions that can be tailored to your child, based on their individual problem + the way they take to things. Each Autistic person has a unique learning style and parents know them best. Do they take to reward charts? Are they scared of the dark, scared of school, is this what is causing problems? There are loads of strategies out there but the gap in the knowledge is all around how to tailor these for neurodiverse people. https://cchp.nhs.uk/cchp/explore-cchp/school-health-nursing/school-nursing-information-resources/sleep-resources
3. This is my go-to: Mindell J, Owens J. A Clinical Guide to Paediatric Sleep. Diagnosis and Management of Sleep Problems. Lippincott Williams and Wilkins 2003. You can download a PDF of this online somewhere if memory serves correctly

I would add to this that your eldest is anxious of being alone - there are some strategies that deal with this, especially with ND children. For example, a night-time hunt, where you do a treasure hunt in the dark. Image rehearsal, where you act out the fear and address it during the day. 'Worry time' where you put aside 20 minutes in the day to talk about worries, and all worries have to be directed to worry time. For the younger one, there's reward systems - for example the 'sleep fairy' who is the cousin of the tooth fairy, she visits children who have slept soundly all night. Have a look at the resources above and good luck xx

Hi not t kids but about me

At night I have a short hallucination ( usually visual inanimate object) but I have also had olfactory

Then I get a 'confusion' in my thinking like I'm trying to work something out , almost like I've forgotten something OR feel like someone is in my room

Then I have a short tremor

I'm not sure if this is a parasomnia, hypnogogic hallucination, a sleep movement disorder or something like a focal awareness seizure

Most grateful to any insights

I can confirm. 9pm is fine. She is doing 'curtain calls' - calling you repeatedly after bedtime. Like I said to a PP, reward systems can help with this if this is the kind of thing you like to do. If she does a good bedtime she can get a button in a jar, 10 buttons = reward. etc.