I ‘section’ people under the MHA

[Narwhalelife]

I am an Approved Mental Health Professional (AMHP). It is only AMHP’s that can section people.
Little is known about us and our role but lots of people know what ‘sectioned’ means - Ask me anything 😊

@Bestshapeever ☺️ Thank you!

That's incorrect. I'm a police officer. The police can DETAIN not arrest on a s136 .

How do you assess someone who’s got no interest in talking to you? I don’t mean those who are actively hostile, I mean, someone who just sits calmly and says they don’t want to talk, and goes quiet?

And can I ask why when people are clearly clearly very mentally unwell , phoning 999 daily , talking absolute nonsense , getting arrested daily for causing nuisance on nhs premises, because they turn up at a&e on a daily basis , saying they're being poisoned , raped , people are breaking into their home when none of it is happening- why they aren't helped ? Why aren't they taken into hospital instead of us being told again and again it's "behavioural " when it's clearly a massive mental health issue ? Tbh I would pay the mental health services I see in buttons . They fail the most needy all the time and pass the buck to police .

@stillvicarinatutu not sure why put I arrest I did mean detain for 24 hours.

And
I've dealt with too many suicides after my services have sent them home saying they're fine .

One girl I deal with now daily is going to kill herself one of these days . Can we get her sectioned ? Can we buggery . They keep sending her home . We arrest for causing a nuisance on nhs premises because she KNOWS she's I'll and no one does fuck all . So she kicks off . And all we can do as police is use the law . I have seen and see now so many let down by my services - I'm sorry but there aren't enough beds , no one takes them seriously, once they've calmed down because they're in a place of safety and it takes hours for a bloody psychiatrist to get out of bed and assess they send them home 9 times out of 10 . Only for police to be called again hours later because they're trying to jump off a bridge or taken an overdose or are causing a scene at a&e.

I have lost all faith in mental health services because I'd say 80% of my job is picking up the pieces of failed patients .

@LeniGray the AMHP is duty bound to ‘interview in a suitable manner’ so basically we have to offer the person the opportunity to have that conversation with us, if time and environment allows we can go and come back to see if that changes anything but if a person still doesn’t say anything then we can still make a decision considering all other information.

some mental disorders like Catatonia means that sometimes the person can’t speak we can still proceed.

Ever deal with anyone suffering with pmdd?

Or complex ptsd?

If so what percentage of those uou section,?

Can a childrens social worker sign a section 136 for an adult

@stillvicarinatutu if there is no mental illness or disorder (and it isn’t a first presentation - so a diagnosis hasn’t yet had a chance to be made) then the mental health act has no place and we as AMHP’s can’t proceed.

i think the issues come when some professionals think there is a mental illness and others do not. It’s an ongoing debate between services and il be honest I don’t know what the solution is ongoing.

@Crazyhousewife absolutely not.

Last week a hospital a&e dept phoned police saying they have a patient without capacity and crisis team have said they need sectioning .

Why call police ? Why not use the capacity act ? She was in a&e for heavens sake - a place of safety. With doctors and nurses and a crisis team - it seemed no one had even thought about using the capacity act which is what it's there for !
We had 120 outstanding incidents that day with about 20 cops available.

I'm sorry I'm not saying you personally are not good at your job but I would say 80% of my workload is mh related because people are failed on a massive scale .

I agree. This thread is interesting, I used to work with adults who had been sectioned. But I'm finding it hard to follow.

Thank you for what you do. My boy became unwell at the age of 22 whilst at university at the other end of the country and ended up dropping out. We brought him home and his behaviour over the next year became increasingly bizarre. I tried everything to try and get him engaged with services but nobody would see him. After a traumatic day when he attacked his Dad we were forced to call the police, he was locked up in cells and the next thing we heard he was in hospital. He ended up on an s2 and later an s3 with severe psychosis and was hospitalised fir 6 months. He came back to us aged 24 on depo and suffering side effects. He is now off the depo and adamant he will never go on it again. He has used drugs (rarely but still) and tells us that he will be going to several festivals this summer. We know that a relapse will likely entail a schizophrenia diagnosis. How common is relapse though? We’ve spoken to his team but they just fob us off. My suspicion is that it’s very common and particularly in drug complicated cases? I just don’t know how we’ll ever get him to accept treatment again. He’s still under home treatment team.

@Vintagecreamandcottagepie a small proportion of PTSD. Most common would be psychosis, depression, personality disorders, eating disorders, mood disorders. Not in that order.

PMDD as a diagnosis is considered more with CAMHS patients (those who are menstruating or of that age) more often than in adults. But I have never assessed where that is the only disorder likely to be present.

Sorry should have done this from the start 🙈

That's the issue - they won't diagnose . They won't section . They send them home again and again when they are clearly clearly very mentally unwell. And this is what quite frankly pisses me off because then we just keep having to deal with the fall out .

@Narwhalelife

Thankyou

as a GP you won’t have ‘sectioned’ anyone - you will have made a recommendation for admission under s.2

And
Police can only detain on a s136 if the person is presenting an immediate danger to themselves or others . And only in a public place . Which ties our hands somewhat . And yet when I persuade someone to go with ambulance to a&e invariably they are kept waiting hours then sent home with absolutely nothing more in place . It's like Groundhog Day .
Of the ones I have s136 hardly anyone has been taken into hospital. I once detained a lady who thought she was Eve - as in the first woman created by god . She was out within 72 hours .
I have , after 12 years being a police officer very very little faith in MH services.

Today got a call for assistance with a s135 for a guy with a diagnosis wielding a knife at his housemates, carving racist slurs into the wall of the communal lounge . No beds . They've postponed the warrant because there are no beds .
Sorry but .....it's exasperating .

Wow tulips we can't get that level
Of service for a
Guy diagnosed with schizophrenia wielding a knife at housemates and carving racial slurs into a wall !