My son is a trans man AMA

[User444]

I have been interested in the AMA threads from trans people and thought it may be good to discuss from another perspective. I hope I won't be flamed for it. I have been a mumsnet member for many years since my now adult DC were much younger. I have name changed for this.

An interesting read OP - thank you!

@User444 thank you for posting such a thoughtful thread.
We are almost certainly the same age range and I admire your honesty about how you maybe wish you’d taken a different tack and waited.
But you did what you thought was best with the knowledge you had at the time.
You clearly are a loving and caring mum, and wish your family contentment.

@Soontobe60 I am not answering your questions as there is a hostile undertone to your post and it seems to me that you are trying to find even more ways to criticize me than others have already done. Your quote of what I said includes my statement that I am not going to go into full details of who treated my DS. I don't believe my answering your questions would help anyone in any way.
I do know who Helen Webberley is, and do not agree with what she does. I had never heard of her until her case was discussed on Mumsnet when it was in the media.

[quote Waternoice]@User444 thank you for posting such a thoughtful thread.
We are almost certainly the same age range and I admire your honesty about how you maybe wish you’d taken a different tack and waited.
But you did what you thought was best with the knowledge you had at the time.
You clearly are a loving and caring mum, and wish your family contentment.[/quote]
Thank you. You are quite right in that I would do things differently if I was in the same situation now. What my DS went through was tough but he has no regrets. It is just that I wonder what would have happened if I had done the watchful waiting instead of supporting him in making such drastic changes so quickly.
Of course we will never know, but it may have been that he would have coped with it and taken a different, easier path. There has been a huge explosion of insight and knowledge about trans issues in the ten years since my DS came out as trans and it would be really strange if parents now did not change their views taking all that into account.
I don't think there can be many more questions for me now, so unless something new is asked in the next 24 hours I am going to leave it as it is.

@User444 you sound like you have done the best you could. I cannot imagine. It is very easy to be all high and mighty when you aren't knee deep in the situation @Soontobe60 hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Hi op, thanks for the great thread. I know you said your ds's chosen name was coincidentally the name you would have chosen had he been born male. How do you feel about that and do you think it made using his "new" name easier? Do you miss his old name?

@Anotherdayanotherdollar

Hi op, thanks for the great thread. I know you said your ds's chosen name was coincidentally the name you would have chosen had he been born male. How do you feel about that and do you think it made using his "new" name easier? Do you miss his old name?

I don't know if it made using his chosen name easier because I have nothing to compare it with. When I remember his childhood I do often think of him in his original name. I don't miss the person he originally was because that person was unhappy, and it was only after he transitioned that I realised how unhappy he had been. It would be selfish of me to wish it had never happened. I cannot simply assume life would have been simpler for my child to carry on and ignore how he felt. It could have been far worse.

[quote User444]@Soontobe60 I am not answering your questions as there is a hostile undertone to your post and it seems to me that you are trying to find even more ways to criticize me than others have already done. Your quote of what I said includes my statement that I am not going to go into full details of who treated my DS. I don't believe my answering your questions would help anyone in any way.
I do know who Helen Webberley is, and do not agree with what she does. I had never heard of her until her case was discussed on Mumsnet when it was in the media.[/quote]
Fair enough.
I wrote my post before you added further posts, and can see that you’ve explained this now.
I’m not hostile as such, but I do find it very sad that girls are resorting to such extensive drug and surgical pathways in order to be seen as something other than what they are - female. Perhaps it’s a reflection of society as a whole that girls who don’t fit the stereotypical image of femaleness are automatically thought to be ‘butch’, ‘manly’ etc. I also think Mermaids / Stonewall (in their current guise) have a lot to answer for.
I apologise for coming across as being critical of you when it’s clear that you’re doing what you believe to be the best for your child.

[quote baggingareaunattended]**@User444* you sound like you have done the best you could. I cannot imagine. It is very easy to be all high and mighty when you aren't knee deep in the situation @Soontobe60* hindsight is a wonderful thing. [/quote]
Yes, you’re right. I have apologised to the OP.

My DD also has a very feminine name.

Aren't the vast majority of girls names by their very nature feminine? I don't understand what a very feminine name is.
Obviously names can be shortened ie Georgina to George but the concept of one name being more feminine than another is a new one on me

I cannot simply assume life would have been simpler for my child to carry on and ignore how he felt. It could have been far worse.

I often think that about my own child. (Not trans; other major issues.) Sometimes desperate measures are needed, and we can't change the whole world to suit them in time for them to thrive, however much we might want that for other reasons.

@Bluesheep8

My DD also has a very feminine name.

Aren't the vast majority of girls names by their very nature feminine? I don't understand what a very feminine name is.
Obviously names can be shortened ie Georgina to George but the concept of one name being more feminine than another is a new one on me

I didn't mean their name was too feminine to be non binary, I meant I think of their name when speaking to others about them and as it is a female name I automatically use she/her instead of they/them. Unfortunately the only possible shorter version of the name is also female. I am trying much harder to use they/them however.

@MistandMud

I cannot simply assume life would have been simpler for my child to carry on and ignore how he felt. It could have been far worse.

I often think that about my own child. (Not trans; other major issues.) Sometimes desperate measures are needed, and we can't change the whole world to suit them in time for them to thrive, however much we might want that for other reasons.

Exactly, that is a great way to word it, thank you.

OP I just wanted to say thanks for such an interesting and insightful thread. You sound like a lovely family.

I admit I do have real concerns about the medicalisation of teens over gender issues - however this is more since the massive increase in the number of teens wanting to transition.

It sounds like your DS's case was before all this and was more of a case of genuine long-term gender dysphoria from an early age. In terms of whether it could have been managed a different way - maybe sometimes there's no right or wrong path, just different options. Maybe your DS could have eventually come to terms with their female body and being a masculine woman. But who knows whether he would have been happier, less happy or about the same. With some of the big decisions in life we can never really know what might have been.

If he's happy and in good physical health now then that's great to hear and long may it continue. It also sounds like he's a credit to you in that despite having gender dysphoria and autism he's gone on to be a young person who sounds happy and secure in themselves and able to have a healthy relationship with his partner.

It sounds like you do a great job of listening to your kids and respecting their point of view even when you don't necessarily agree with it (and interesting that your DC who has actually transitioned doesn't have much truck with your DD's woke ideas!). All the best to you and both your DC!

@User444

I didn't mean their name was too feminine to be non binary, I meant I think of their name when speaking to others about them and as it is a female name I automatically use she/her instead of they/them. Unfortunately the only possible shorter version of the name is also female. I am trying much harder to use they/them however.

Ah I see, I had misunderstood what you meant, thank you for explaining.

Did you worry about how they would navigate life being trans? I currently have a 7 year old daughter who since the age of about 3 has claimed she wants to be a boy. She dresses in boys clothes, refers to herself as a boy not a girl in school etc. In school she has a male name however, doesn't use this at home and is happy to be called her birth name at home.( We have discussed this and are happy with whatever she wants) Also doesn't mind female pronouns at home and at school they tend to just say they and them etc which again my daughter doesn't seem to mind. She has her own toilet at school as she gets very upset at not being allowed into the boys. All of her friends and the the whole class actually have been wonderful, call her whatever she wants to be called and recognise especially at school that she wants to identify as a boy. As a family we are one hundred percent behind her, just want her to be happy, however, appreciate she is still so very young.
I find it hard trying to have a balance of being super supportive but maybe being too pushy and allowing her to do something she may later not actually want to do, and that I'm not doing enough to make her happy and just be who she wants. I'm constantly learning.

Sorry that was a big rant, I guess my question is did your son find high school hard, experience bullying or not being Accepted? This is my fear, I get so worried sometimes about it as no matter what support she has from family and close friends I know I cant always protect her from the wider world and other people's opinions.

You should be very proud of your son, he sounds like such a wonderful brave person and it's a testament to his upbringing

@Ladylalaboo1 what do you consider to be 'boys' clothes' for a 7yo? (I'm constantly amazed when I look at the girls' sections in shops that there's rarely any joggers/long shorts etc, it's all fitted like leggings/short shorts etc. That's a fairly recent thing I think!)

Have you discussed what it is that she thinks she could do/be as a boy that she can't as a girl?

I know young kids are tricky but my worry would be that by going along with it too readily she will really cement the idea in her mind that it's possible to turn into a boy (presumably she means a boy's body? Would she have known this at 3?)

Hi, yeah so i usually just purchase things from the boys section, like you have mentioned the leggings shorts joggers all of that are either fitted or maybe have a sequin pattern on etc which I know shouldn't be seen as ' girls' but to her she thinks it's too girly and wants girls stuff. Yeah this is our worry, it's so difficult to navigate but since she was about 3 it's been I'm a boy, it's only recently she's kind of accepted she's physically a girl ( by that I mean girls body) but that she feels like a boy and she is one. I worry that if we do anything drastic like fully let her identify as a boy, and we only use a male name etc then if she changed her mind or felt different she might feel unable to say wait I feel like I'm actually a girl now? So I guess we are just going with the flow. I've never obviously been through anything like this before and it's abit daunting but ultimately I want her to be happy. I do think it's significant that at school she seems more determined to be a boy and at home it's not as big of a deal. Almost as if she feels she doesn't fit in with the girls but does with the boys? We have constantly spoke about how girls and women can do anything boys can, and she has two sisters, her eldest sister ( she's younger but elder of the two if that makes sense?!) They both do MMA and play football, they love it and both wanted to so she knows girls and boys can do the same things, but I wonder if the difference is heightened in schools?

It's a hard situation and I don't know what the best thing to do is, I think she possibly could have some form of body dsymorphia but I'm reluctant to say anybody about it yet as again I don't want to draw attention to it and make it such a massive thing, she's a very intelligent clued up 7 year old, and I'm so happy she feels able to talk to us about how she feels so don't want to risk that.

There are times though for example at the weekend they were trying on their Halloween costumes and my middle daughter had a witch dress and my eldest asked to try it on which I said yeah course and she loved it but when I said awh do you like it she said ew now and took it off. Similar with my middle child's makeup dress up area, she often plays there and puts makeup on etc and then if we draw attention to it she's joking etc and takes it off. ( I know makeup isnt just got girls but I guess in her mind it's a girly thing to do )

I don't want to push it one way or another as I want her to just be open with who she feels she is and if she wants to explore the options of female or male etc I'm happy, but I guess this is why we haven't decided to just let her be a boy now at that's that. Very hard when they are young.

@Ladylalaboo1 I hate things with sequins on personally or this enamouring bows they put on girls things.

@TooWicked

He had always not fitted the female role

Could you explain what you mean by the ‘female role’, what that is exactly? and who was asking or expecting him to “fit” that role?

I don't understand this or the reference to "boy stuff".

Especially as children there is absolutely nothing that is or should be gender specific in terms of activities or preferences etc.

I feel this is part of the problem as boys feel they have to identify as a girl to do "girl stuff" (whatever that even means)

@Ladylalaboo1

Did you worry about how they would navigate life being trans? I currently have a 7 year old daughter who since the age of about 3 has claimed she wants to be a boy. She dresses in boys clothes, refers to herself as a boy not a girl in school etc. In school she has a male name however, doesn't use this at home and is happy to be called her birth name at home.( We have discussed this and are happy with whatever she wants) Also doesn't mind female pronouns at home and at school they tend to just say they and them etc which again my daughter doesn't seem to mind. She has her own toilet at school as she gets very upset at not being allowed into the boys. All of her friends and the the whole class actually have been wonderful, call her whatever she wants to be called and recognise especially at school that she wants to identify as a boy. As a family we are one hundred percent behind her, just want her to be happy, however, appreciate she is still so very young. I find it hard trying to have a balance of being super supportive but maybe being too pushy and allowing her to do something she may later not actually want to do, and that I'm not doing enough to make her happy and just be who she wants. I'm constantly learning.

Sorry that was a big rant, I guess my question is did your son find high school hard, experience bullying or not being Accepted? This is my fear, I get so worried sometimes about it as no matter what support she has from family and close friends I know I cant always protect her from the wider world and other people's opinions.

You should be very proud of your son, he sounds like such a wonderful brave person and it's a testament to his upbringing

@Ladylalaboo1 I'm sorry I haven't answered your questions. I do think that I described how it was for my DS at high school in one of my posts. Basically high school was much better after he socially transitioned.Only one of his peers was a problem but they were a new pupil to the school who did not know my son beforehand. Once staff had spoken with them it wasn't a problem. I do get that it is really difficult for you with your child. I was (probably selfishly) glad that my DS did not announce how he felt until the end of puberty. I did know other parents with DC much younger who declared they were the opposite gender and it seemed so much harder for them.

I no longer worry about how he will navigate life as a trans-men. He is doing amazingly well. The only worry I now have is his long term health.

here are times though for example at the weekend they were trying on their Halloween costumes and my middle daughter had a witch dress and my eldest asked to try it on which I said yeah course and she loved it but when I said awh do you like it she said ew now and took it off. Similar with my middle child's makeup dress up area, she often plays there and puts makeup on etc and then if we draw attention to it she's joking etc and takes it off. ( I know makeup isnt just got girls but I guess in her mind it's a girly thing to do )

Probably not too helpful but I would possibly avoid drawing attention to her doing anything you consider 'girly' like it's in any way a big deal. Just pretend not to even notice unless she wants to talk about it. Otherwise you risk her digging her heels in out of not wanting to admit she was ever wrong about anything (God knows I've had enough experience with this...)

Another example, instead of calling it a 'witch dress' you could call it a 'witch or wizard costume' or something?

I do think it's significant that at school she seems more determined to be a boy and at home it's not as big of a deal. Almost as if she feels she doesn't fit in with the girls but does with the boys?

That does seem like it's a social thing, setting out her stall as to which 'group' she feels she's in? And obviously not in itself any harm to play with boys.

sorry to harp on, OP, and thank you for this thread because lots of what you have said is very enlightening. You mentioned growing up in the 70s, and i definitely think there was a lot less gendered clothes/toys nonsense then.

Are you a feminist?

I ask because you haven't, for me, really answered the question about why you regard some things as "boy stuff".

He was always doing boy stuff from an early age and was a Taekwondo black belt at age 14. I have never been very feminine though and both my children grew up with a wide range of toys and activities of all kinds. As a family we did lots of camping, walking and cycling.

This is what confuses me in all the discussions about trans issues. I did (and do) most of these things, as did my family (mum, dad, brother, me) and i have never felt that i was not a girl. Having said that i cannot really put my finger on why i feel that I'm a woman, and frankly think that "gender" should be something we ditch asap (so that we don't say "dresses are feminine" "power tools are masculine" etc)

Do you think that your family attitude that these things are masculine types of thing may have pushed what in my day would have been called a tomboy (urgh - i got a lot of that even though i sewed my own clothes. Mostly dresses) into thinking that he wanted to be a different gender to that assigned at birth?

There's an interesting thing elswehere about what is actually required when you have to live for 2 years in your chosen gender (in this case as a woman) and the answer was basically using pronouns and changing your name all over the place and gender markers where possible.

I find it very hard to reconcile "this is boy/girl stuff" and no requirement on the part of authorities for anyone to indulge only in boy stuff if they are a transboy/man.

From your posts i glean it is really more of a deep-feeling of being male, despite your insistence on activities and clothes being gendered things.

Do he feel offended by things that are female? Like the idea of screening for breast cancer or other female afflictions? (He had a lot of surgeries so don't think he has periods or anything)

I ask because there is a huge erasing of gender everywhere like "menstruating person" or "breastfeeding person" and just think that it is all too much.

What is his opinion about this?

@Brefugee

sorry to harp on, OP, and thank you for this thread because lots of what you have said is very enlightening. You mentioned growing up in the 70s, and i definitely think there was a lot less gendered clothes/toys nonsense then.

Are you a feminist?

I ask because you haven't, for me, really answered the question about why you regard some things as "boy stuff".

He was always doing boy stuff from an early age and was a Taekwondo black belt at age 14. I have never been very feminine though and both my children grew up with a wide range of toys and activities of all kinds. As a family we did lots of camping, walking and cycling.

This is what confuses me in all the discussions about trans issues. I did (and do) most of these things, as did my family (mum, dad, brother, me) and i have never felt that i was not a girl. Having said that i cannot really put my finger on why i feel that I'm a woman, and frankly think that "gender" should be something we ditch asap (so that we don't say "dresses are feminine" "power tools are masculine" etc)

Do you think that your family attitude that these things are masculine types of thing may have pushed what in my day would have been called a tomboy (urgh - i got a lot of that even though i sewed my own clothes. Mostly dresses) into thinking that he wanted to be a different gender to that assigned at birth?

There's an interesting thing elswehere about what is actually required when you have to live for 2 years in your chosen gender (in this case as a woman) and the answer was basically using pronouns and changing your name all over the place and gender markers where possible.

I find it very hard to reconcile "this is boy/girl stuff" and no requirement on the part of authorities for anyone to indulge only in boy stuff if they are a transboy/man.

From your posts i glean it is really more of a deep-feeling of being male, despite your insistence on activities and clothes being gendered things.

I apologise for being offline for several days and not answering posts on this thread. One of my family members is terminally I'll so I have been dealing with more practical concerns.

Yes I am a feminist and I do not insist on activities and clothes being gendered things. If I say "boy stuff" what I actually mean is clothing or activities which society in general sees as traditionally male. A clumsy way of expressing what I really meant and an expression I regret using as so many have taken me to task for. Yes, for my DS it was a deep feeling of being male for years before he decided to transition.
When you speak of the "interesting thing elsewhere" about the 2 years using pronouns and changing name all over the place" I presume you mean the Gender Recognition Certificate.
My DS applied for his GRC soon after his 18th birthday. I do not know what the requirements are now, but 7 years ago the process involved producing letters covering the previous 2 years addressed to him on his new name. The letters had to be from different sources, plus other proof such as examination certificates, a statement from a doctor outlining what medical steps had been taken towards gender reassignment
He also had to have an oath sworn in front of a solicitor to the effect that he would live the rest of his life as a man. The procedure was lenghty and costly. It went before a court before the decision was made to grant the GRC. He then received a birth certificate with his new name on and the certificate.