My son is a trans man AMA

[User444]

I have been interested in the AMA threads from trans people and thought it may be good to discuss from another perspective. I hope I won't be flamed for it. I have been a mumsnet member for many years since my now adult DC were much younger. I have name changed for this.

@MonsignorMirth, sorry I missed answering that. He has not expanded a great deal on how he felt he was male. As it was 11 years ago it is hard to remember exactly what he said at that time. He does find it hard to put his feelings into words and it isn't something we discuss now. But what I do recall is that he described how he felt as though everything about himself was wrong and that he had never expected to grow up female. He said that when he started puberty he realised what had felt was wrong until then was that he felt he was meant to be a boy, not a girl. The Enocrinologist he saw initially said that he had reached Tanner stage 5, which meant he had finished puberty. Which meant that puberty blockers would simply stop menstruation and further breast growth. That of course would help with the dysphoria caused by those.

Op thanks for this thread.
Clearly your son has put a great deal into his transition with all the hormone blockers, cross sex hormones and surgery. What does he think of the trans umbrella now including so many different gendered (I’m struggling to word this bit properly ) people who haven’t undergone and medical treatment but still feel they are trans? Dd and I were just looking into the difference between aromantic and asexual and I understand why they are different now but are they a sexuality or would they be counted as a gender and under the trans umbrella? Does you son feel aggrieved by the broadness of the inclusion given all he went through in order to feel right with himself or does he think all the different genders are as valid and as ‘trans’ as he is?

Thanks OP, how interesting. Re the name, did he know what his name would've been if he'd been born male or was it a coincidence? (or perhaps sometimes we talk about this stuff with our kids then years later it's in the back of their heads....)

We've had a few (not many) parents/family etc of trans men on here over the years and I don't think a single one has said, when asked, that the trans man gets behind the current gender activism stuff being pushed by Stonewall etc, that the trans umbrella is massive and includes anyone not even suffering gender dysphoria etc.

They have all said (to my recollection) that they just want to live a quiet life and don't get involved in activism. Which makes me wonder who they are all arguing for?

I guess one last question would be whether you/your son agree with Stonewall's efforts to get 'sex' replaced by 'gender identity' in legislation etc, so there would be no categorisation legally of people by their sex class but only by how they identify?

@WithLargeTableMouse

Op thanks for this thread. Clearly your son has put a great deal into his transition with all the hormone blockers, cross sex hormones and surgery. What does he think of the trans umbrella now including so many different gendered (I’m struggling to word this bit properly ) people who haven’t undergone and medical treatment but still feel they are trans? Dd and I were just looking into the difference between aromantic and asexual and I understand why they are different now but are they a sexuality or would they be counted as a gender and under the trans umbrella? Does you son feel aggrieved by the broadness of the inclusion given all he went through in order to feel right with himself or does he think all the different genders are as valid and as ‘trans’ as he is?

So for example, would he consider his sister trans to as she’s non binary? My understanding of trans now is someone who’s gender identity does not match their sex at birth so your daughter would also be trans but do your son and daughter think this? Are there different degrees of being trans?

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee

OP it sounds too like the school had rigid gendered expectations too. I guess your son started high school a long time ago (14 years?). Did they use the language and idea of 'boys uniform'? That's not my experience of schools nowadays, there are just uniforms and you can wear what you like (may just be our local schools). How helpful or not was it to your son to have ideas about 'boys stuff' and 'girls stuff' all around him? What might have changed for kids nowadays given that we have broken down some of the gendered stereotypes (such as 'boys uniform')?

I don't suppose we thought about gendered expectations then. trans people were not as obvious then, particularly young trans-people. DS was the first person his school had to deal with. the uniform was not particularly rigid. It was a black blazer with school badge on the pocket, school tie, white shirt or blouse and black trousers or skirt. The girls tended to wear a fitted jacket and blouse and narrow trousers or skirt. DS went in the boys blazer (called a boy's blazer due to it fastening the opposite way to the girl's more fitted blazer. You must remember that 14 years ago the severe equality/discrimination bandwagon was not as prolific as it is today, at least not where we live. Boy's and girl's uniform was not intended to be a discriminatory term, it referred to the styles and cut of the clothes. DS stood out due to wearing the same type of clothes the boys did. His friends were the other odd ones out who struggled to be accepted, and were generally boys. The school did go to some lengths to help him once he had refused to move to a different school or to ignore how he felt until he left school (both of which would have made iot much easier for the school). He was then able to do PE with the boys, but had to change for PE in the disabled bathroom. His classmates were referring to him by his chosen name before he even revealed how he felt to me. The Pastoral Support staff knew how he felt and had told him he really should "talk to Mum" about it. It is difficult to understand how it was then as it is so different now, with young trans-people in the media and all the discussion and court cases around it. I am glad in a way that it happened then and not now. It seemed simpler then, even though it shouldn't have been. Yes, there should have been more controls and it should have been much harder. It is almost as though DS strolled through his transition just before the gates to treatment came crashing down behind him. And yes, I do wonder what would have happened if I had not supported him. Yes I do get angry with myself at times for the support I gave him. But it is done now. He is currently happy and is living a normal happy life. I hope that continues, of course I do.

He was always doing boy stuff from an early age and was a Taekwondo black belt at age 14

I find this statement really sad and disturbing. I was a King Fu brown belat 14, I did science A levels, I never wear skirts or dresses, I work in IT. Why am I not a man then? Do you see how that statement grates on non gender confirming women? Do you worry that you son is really just a butch lesbian?

@WithLargeTableMouse

Op thanks for this thread. Clearly your son has put a great deal into his transition with all the hormone blockers, cross sex hormones and surgery. What does he think of the trans umbrella now including so many different gendered (I’m struggling to word this bit properly ) people who haven’t undergone and medical treatment but still feel they are trans? Dd and I were just looking into the difference between aromantic and asexual and I understand why they are different now but are they a sexuality or would they be counted as a gender and under the trans umbrella? Does you son feel aggrieved by the broadness of the inclusion given all he went through in order to feel right with himself or does he think all the different genders are as valid and as ‘trans’ as he is?

DS now looks on the trans umbrella as being too wide a spectrum. However he is accepting and respectful of everyone living their own life as they wish to. He views all the wokeness and those who are offended on other's behalf as laughable. That includes his sister, who is very woke. However he respects how she feels, (that she is non binary), and I know he thinks I should make more effort with pronouns etc.

He has always had either a liking or dislike of people depending on how he perceives them. He has to feel comfortable with someone to want to be with them. That feeling is not based on sex or gender, it is simply how he feels about them. He has always been reticent to meet new people throughout his life. But there have been some who he feels a bond with soon after meeting them. Those are the small group who stay in his life going forward. He does not feel aggrieved by anything which is happening now. In fact he felt very strongly that the Keira Bell case result was wrong, he said that it should be doctors who decide on whether hormone blockers should be allowed, not the courst. But he did not know that the ruling has now been overturned as he isn't interested enough to follow it in the media. He doesn't do Social Media and likes a quiet life with his job, family, friends and pets.

@Sonarl

He was always doing boy stuff from an early age and was a Taekwondo black belt at age 14

I find this statement really sad and disturbing. I was a King Fu brown belat 14, I did science A levels, I never wear skirts or dresses, I work in IT. Why am I not a man then? Do you see how that statement grates on non gender confirming women? Do you worry that you son is really just a butch lesbian?

I am sorry to upset you. I have probably included examples which were previously seen as unusual during that time, in that my DS was the only girl in the Taekwondo club at the time so it did stand out as different.

No I don't think he is really "just a butch lesbian." I don't know why, but when he came out as trans it wasn't a shock. That was why I was accepting. It is very difficult to explain without offending some people in one way or another.

@MonsignorMirth

Thanks OP, how interesting. Re the name, did he know what his name would've been if he'd been born male or was it a coincidence? (or perhaps sometimes we talk about this stuff with our kids then years later it's in the back of their heads....)

We've had a few (not many) parents/family etc of trans men on here over the years and I don't think a single one has said, when asked, that the trans man gets behind the current gender activism stuff being pushed by Stonewall etc, that the trans umbrella is massive and includes anyone not even suffering gender dysphoria etc.

They have all said (to my recollection) that they just want to live a quiet life and don't get involved in activism. Which makes me wonder who they are all arguing for?

I guess one last question would be whether you/your son agree with Stonewall's efforts to get 'sex' replaced by 'gender identity' in legislation etc, so there would be no categorisation legally of people by their sex class but only by how they identify?

Regarding his name, it is possible he had heard talk about it in the past. He says not but perhaps he did. Yes I agree that most Trans men just want to live a quiet life and are not interested in activism. I know other young transmen through my DS's previous association with groups and all of them are quietly getting on with their lives. The thing is that they are subject to less discrimination and most pass so easily that it is easier for them to blend in with society. My DS is not interested in what Stonewall et al are up to. As mentioned before, he doesn't do social media of any kind so is generally unaware of what the TRA's and others are up to. When any of it is brought to his attention he is not interested. It winds up his sister who is into all of the campaigning and activism for the the wide trans umbrella. Whereas as far as DS is concerned it is something in his past and he now wants to be left to get on with his life.

@SpindleWorld

So was medically transitioned from age 14, starting privately? I guess you were pretty supportive.

Yes I was supportive after wse had talked extensively about it and he had been assessed by professionals. It was a very difficult time and now seems half a lifetime ago. Maybe I should have been less supportive but there is no going back . I only have to hope that he is happy for the resty of his life.

@SpindleWorld I apologise, I did not answer your question as to whether he was medically transitioned privately at age 14.
Surely most people with an interest in this would know that it has never been possible to get this treatment privately at age 14 in the UK. Yes the USA and possibly other countries were at one time offering that. But not in the UK. So the answer to that is no, of course not. I will say that the route he took is no longer available and quite right too.

@MistandMud

This sounds so very like the history of good friends of ours that I wondered if you were them with slight change of birth order details!

Are any of your family autistic? (I have a non-nosy reason for asking, and several of my own family are.)

Sorry to answer questions out of chronological order and that I missed this one. Of course I don't know if we are the family you are thinking of. I think possibly all of my family are autistic in some sense. We are a bit of an odd bunch. But we are very close and deal with the rubbish hand we are dealt and are very open minded.

@TheLovelinessOfDemons

Thanks for starting this thread. I have 2 trans sons, one only told me recently. He's 14. Do you have any advice for him?

The advice I would give now to anyone feeling like this is try to wait if you can before doing anything irreversible. By all means do the social transition if you must. Try it on, see how it feels. The world has moved on a lot in the last 15 years since my DS came out. Being gender neutral is more acceptable. As a mother, if I could go back I would have encouraged my DS to do that. It would have been an easier path, even though if he eventually transitioned and had a harder time doing so. But hindsight is a wonderful thing...

OP, do you think your son's autism had much to do with his need for transition? Rigidity around gender roles? I find it so interesting that there seems to be a strong correlation between autistic girls and transsexuality. Particularly interested as I have an autistic son. Thank you for this AMA, I'm learning a lot.

I am perimenopausal and ache a lot. I have been researching what is going on from a hormone pov and read that the female sexed body is full of oestrogen receptors and the lack of that hormone causes the various unpleasant symptoms due to the lack of oestrogen. Specifically Oestrogen is responsible for the hydration regulation of cartilage in a female (my reading round the subject said, so I believe it's true) so when the oestrogen declines the cartilage isn't as hydrated and that's why you get aching joints.

Since I've been troubled with this I've pondered on whether this is a problem for transmen, how they cope or whether they have a solution for it?

I am sorry to upset you. I have probably included examples which were previously seen as unusual during that time, in that my DS was the only girl in the Taekwondo club at the time so it did stand out as different.

Do you think it may have helped in this specific instance to have found a club that was more mixed sex? The majority are, it’s not unusual at all for girls/women to do martial arts.

On the school uniform & having shorter hair, clothes and hairstyles don’t in my mind define someone’s sex, I have short hair & a cut of trousers is just a style preference - do you think the concept that those things had to be rigidly male made a difference in his feelings he was trans.

I feel that even when I was at school (much longer than 14 years ago) those things would’ve been viewed as a fashion choice rather than being innately associated with sex/gender.

@Wrongsideofhistorymyarse

Do you genuinely believe your youngest child is now your son?

I have a transman niece.

I genuinely believe he is my trans-son. I don't believe you can change sex. It is biology, which is fixed no matter what changes are made to the body. He had his body changed to fit how he felt he should be. He knows my opinion. Trans-men are trans-men and Trans-women are trans-women. I respect that and it is their own business. As far as I am concerned people can call themselves whatever they like so long as they are not hurting anyone else. I hope you support your trans family member, whether you agree with how they live their life or not. I had some friends and one relative who did not agree with me supporting my DS. They are no longer part of our lives. Those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter.

@LawnFever

I am sorry to upset you. I have probably included examples which were previously seen as unusual during that time, in that my DS was the only girl in the Taekwondo club at the time so it did stand out as different.

Do you think it may have helped in this specific instance to have found a club that was more mixed sex? The majority are, it’s not unusual at all for girls/women to do martial arts.

On the school uniform & having shorter hair, clothes and hairstyles don’t in my mind define someone’s sex, I have short hair & a cut of trousers is just a style preference - do you think the concept that those things had to be rigidly male made a difference in his feelings he was trans.

I feel that even when I was at school (much longer than 14 years ago) those things would’ve been viewed as a fashion choice rather than being innately associated with sex/gender.

The club he joined was the only club in our area. He joined whilst still in primary school and there were girls who joined but most didn't stay. He was the only girl member at the time he transitioned socially.

Yes you are right about clothes and hairstyle. I too currently have very short hair, but I have had long hair on and off in the past. I usually get it cut short when long hair is too much trouble, e.g.for convenience when getting ready for work.

At school it was the fact that DS was the only girl who did not wear the same type of clothes that the girls were wearing which set him apart and encouraged curiosity amongst his peers. He did not have many female friends because he was not interested in the same things the girls were. His friends were mainly from social things he did outside of school. I will try to choose my words more carefully. I do believe I am entitled to my own opinions though and I know these differ from many others. I am pretty old now and probably not as PC as a lot of people on here.

@Norabuzz

OP, do you think your son's autism had much to do with his need for transition? Rigidity around gender roles? I find it so interesting that there seems to be a strong correlation between autistic girls and transsexuality. Particularly interested as I have an autistic son. Thank you for this AMA, I'm learning a lot.

It is possible that his autism did have something to do with his decision. It was explored extensively during counselling. He does not talk much but is very clear about how he feels when he does discuss things. If he brings up something he wants to discuss you can be sure he has explored how he feels extensively before speaking. He doesn't stick rigidly to his initial opinions though. He will change his mind and opinion over time when he has considered something from different angles and will listen to alternative stances which may or may not influence his decisions. I am pleased that some are finding this helpful. As with everything in life, what suits some people doesn't suit others. Not all autistic people are the same nor can we expect them all to feel the same way or make the same decisions. I too find it interesting that most girls/women who identify as male are somewhat autistic. There is as yet no definitive explanation for that fact. As research into it does not seem to be being undertaken (to my knowledge) it may be some time before there is an answer to that. I do believe, though, that each person should be viewed and assessed as an individual and not lumped in together with all other autistic people who want to alter themselves to better fit how they feel.

Mmm, I do wonder whether some autistic children actually tend more to ‘natural’ childhood behaviour rather than picking up on society’s more obscure social rules. I think I/we were lucky to be raised in the 70s and 80s in unisex tracksuits, doing mostly mud larking at guide camp rather than pamper parties, makeup and social issues.

There were always some girls who sneered at that lack of ‘femininity’, but it started later.

@CleopatrasBeautifulNose

I am perimenopausal and ache a lot. I have been researching what is going on from a hormone pov and read that the female sexed body is full of oestrogen receptors and the lack of that hormone causes the various unpleasant symptoms due to the lack of oestrogen. Specifically Oestrogen is responsible for the hydration regulation of cartilage in a female (my reading round the subject said, so I believe it's true) so when the oestrogen declines the cartilage isn't as hydrated and that's why you get aching joints.

Since I've been troubled with this I've pondered on whether this is a problem for transmen, how they cope or whether they have a solution for it?

I have been aching a lot since I was much younger as I have been arthritic since my early twenties so I cannot relate to menopausal pain as it would have been indistinguishable from pain I already had. I am now several years post menopausal. As far as DS is concerned, he has so far not had any aches and pains. Maybe in the future he may, but so may everyone as they age. As he has had a full hysterectomy you would imagine he would have suffered the same sort of symptoms as women who are menopausal do. Yet he did not. But then not all women do suffer in that way. If we do then our symptoms are managed, or not, by medication or lifestyle changes. I am not going to try to predict any future problems he may have. Life is too short for that, and what will be will be. He understands that he may have problems in the future, but it is done now.

@MistandMud

Mmm, I do wonder whether some autistic children actually tend more to ‘natural’ childhood behaviour rather than picking up on society’s more obscure social rules. I think I/we were lucky to be raised in the 70s and 80s in unisex tracksuits, doing mostly mud larking at guide camp rather than pamper parties, makeup and social issues.

There were always some girls who sneered at that lack of ‘femininity’, but it started later.

Most definitely. I grew up in the seventies. It was a much easier time to be young. Most of my friends were male as I enjoyed doing what they did, riding my bike, messing about in streams and generally getting messy, living in jean's and t shirts and keeping pets. At high school I had a small group of friends but it wasn't sneered at if you didn't wear make up or spend hours on your appearance. In fact my peers thought you more odd if you didn't smoke from your early teens. I knew I was a bit different from most of my peers but I valued that rather than being upset about it.

I think some of what’s seen as ‘boyish’ in girls is nearer to default child behaviour. Conversely, a childish enthusiasm for twirly bright clothes and cuddly toys is seen as ‘girly’ in boys.

God, people are complicated, aren’t they?

Whether or not you’re my old uni friend (which would be v odd!) I wish you and your kids well.

User444 I'm very supportive of my relative, although they're currently not talking to me because I agreed with the Maya Forstater ruling. We live quite far from each other but when we see each other it's lovely.

OP, you say that your child's trans youth group didn't reinforce their idea that they are male. How can they not have reinforced it? Surely the group was a large number of people all saying "yes, you are right" and that must naturally reinforce their idea?

Saying like this is like saying "my child decided to convert to Islam and later attended mosque but going to mosque didn't reinforce their beliefs".

Second question: did their school start agreeing they were male before they told you? I'm not quite clear from your wording if they agreed your child was male or if they just told your child they had to discuss it with you.