I’m the aromantic asexual who’s thread was taken down and I don’t even know why AMA!

[IWillFindYou]

So I posted it, checked day later no questions, next thing it’s gone.
I have no idea what happened or was said.

So, let’s do this again.

[DuesToTheDirt]

Can I ask any ase/aro people on here, what would make your life better? Aside from winning the lottery etc....

[ArcheryAnnie]

@Wotwhywhen

anyone who would not describe themselves as anywhere on the asexual spectrum - say that they have ever felt that someone they know was bad or wrong or a "freak" for not being in a relationship?

You're very concerned with how others see you aren't you? Is sexuality a performative thing for you? Feels like you just glossed over all.mention of inner doubt and self questioning. But hey ho.

I don't see how not being in a relationship or being single is the same as Asexuality?
One is in-line with normal preconceptions, the other is not.

Ask something more like,
"anyone gay, have you felt bad or wrong or a "freak" for not being in a straight relationship? Or been judged by others in that way?"

Wotwhywhen you still don't seem to be reading what I actually write, you just see my name and then imagine the worst possible thing I could have said.

Why do you say that I am "very concerned with how others see" me? Isn't everyone at least a bit interested in how others see them? That's a very odd thing to write.

The reason I asked that is that - as I have said, several times - that I've always known people, including older people, who have never had a relationship, ever. It's pretty ordinary. It would never have occurred to me to think that they were freaks or wrong or bad, or any of the other things that some people have said that they have felt, in the past about themselves.

So - I asked if anyone else had ever thought of people who have never had a relationship (whether they are asexual or just eternally celibate is not for an outsider to determine, unless they are told) as freakish or wrong or whatever, because I didn't know that this was a widespread thing, if it is.

(Whereas I could show you libraries and libraries of people declaring loudly that gay people are freakish and wrong and bad.)

[Wotwhywhen]

Why do you say that I am "very concerned with how others see" me?

Posts like:

Nobody ever got beaten up for not holding hands with someone in the street.

Referencing someone getting beaten up because a third party didn't like them holding hands.

Whatever struggle I've had has been with other people - worrying that people I love will reject me, having those fears occasionally come true, being called "faggot" or "dyke" in the street, being afraid of physical violence if people realised that two of us walking together were partners

No internal struggles, all concern regarding with how others see you.

Then you returned to ask how other people see single people.
Not how other asexuals have been treated or how they feel, just how other people think of single people.

(Whereas I could show you libraries and libraries of people declaring loudly that gay people are freakish and wrong and bad.)

More concern with how other people see a gay person.

It's almost as though because you have never had struggle, you can't accept other people have. Because you know people that have been single a long time, that obviously Asexuality isn't a thing.

So please explain nice and clearly.
Firstly, how are my personal experiences "co opting" other peoples experiences?
How I am misrepresenting what you've typed?

I could do with you also explaining how someone that has been single a long time is the same as an asexual?
(That being that just because someone is single doesn't mean they don't feel attraction to others, asexuals don't feel attraction to others, but you see them the same... Or have I misread again?)

[BoreiPuriHagafen]

@ArcheryAnnie

The reason I asked that is that - as I have said, several times - that I've always known people, including older people, who have never had a relationship, ever. It's pretty ordinary. It would never have occurred to me to think that they were freaks or wrong or bad, or any of the other things that some people have said that they have felt, in the past about themselves.

This also accords completely with my experience. People who aren't in relationships, for whatever reason, are neither unusual nor interesting (for that reason- of course they might have other qualities and experiences that ARE unusual and interesting).

It is very common both historically and in recent times, and is not something that anyone has ever been bothered about (in sharp contrast to homosexuality, for example).

[BoreiPuriHagafen]

@wotwhywhen

I could do with you also explaining how someone that has been single a long time is the same as an asexual?
(That being that just because someone is single doesn't mean they don't feel attraction to others, asexuals don't feel attraction to others, but you see them the same... Or have I misread again?)

But it doesn't matter. It IS the same.

It is of zero significance to me whether Jane or Vinod is single because they don't feel sexual attraction, don't want a romantic partner, can't find anyone, prefer one-night stands, et cetera.

It doesn't make any difference to me or to anyone else who knows them. I am not interested in other people's private sexual or romantic desires or lack thereof. It doesn't matter to anyone except the individual concerned.

Gay rights is of social importance because there were laws that actively criminalised homosexual acts and relationships, and gay partners were denied the rights of straight couples.

The same does not apply here. No one is judging. No one is making laws against it. No one cares.

[WormYourHonour]

But it doesn't matter. It IS the same.

Someone single is the same as an asexual.

Please explain.

A gay man that fancies men but isn't in a relationship is the same as someone that doesn't fancy anyone.

Please explain.

[Wotwhywhen]

People who aren't in relationships

Single =/= asexual

[ArcheryAnnie]

Whatever struggle I've had has been with other people - worrying that people I love will reject me, having those fears occasionally come true, being called "faggot" or "dyke" in the street, being afraid of physical violence if people realised that two of us walking together were partners

No internal struggles, all concern regarding with how others see you

Er, yes? I'm not keen on being rejected by people I love, or abused in the street, or thumped, or sacked, or paid less, or whatever it is that people do when they think I am lesser, either because I'm same-sex-attracted or because I'm a woman. How is this a bad thing?

And my questions here were wondering how and why this happens to asexual people, when it hadn't really occurred to me that people would think it wrong not to have or want relationship, and nor have I seen this kind of abuse visited on the always-single people I've known at various points in my life that has arisen from their lack of relationships.

[Wotwhywhen]

And my questions here were wondering how and why this happens to asexual people, when it hadn't really occurred to me that people would think it wrong not to have or want relationship

The people in this sentence, is that the asexual themselves your referring too or third party people looking at the asexual in the street?

nor have I seen this kind of abuse visited on the always-single people I've known at various points in my life that has arisen from their lack of relationships.

Are you living 24/7 with the "Always single" people you've known? As most of the abuse and pressure I have detailed is from family and friends, the sort you'd not see unless you lived with them 24/7 or had experienced it. But again "always single" =/= asexual.

[MumofAceDD]

I also commented on your original thread. I have only read your replies on this one, as I find the lack of understanding (or willingness to try to understand) quite depressing really and don’t feel like reading through. But as I said on the other thread, my DD has benefited from being able to name her asexuality and be more open about who she is.

I have been single (and indeed celibate) for eight years now. I am not asexual.

[BoreiPuriHagafen]

@WormYourHonour

But it doesn't matter. It IS the same.

Someone single is the same as an asexual.

Please explain.

A gay man that fancies men but isn't in a relationship is the same as someone that doesn't fancy anyone.

Please explain.

I am female. Also I'm in a relationship. What difference does it make to me whether a man I know fancies men, women, both, or no one?

It makes no difference at all to me. It is totally irrelevant. I will treat them with exactly the same degree of respect, kindness, etc.

Their sexual or romantic desires or lack of them are irrelevant to me. Immaterial. Not sure which bit is difficult to understand, but I will try to explain further if you like?

[slashlover]

[quote BoreiPuriHagafen]@ArcheryAnnie

The reason I asked that is that - as I have said, several times - that I've always known people, including older people, who have never had a relationship, ever. It's pretty ordinary. It would never have occurred to me to think that they were freaks or wrong or bad, or any of the other things that some people have said that they have felt, in the past about themselves.

This also accords completely with my experience. People who aren't in relationships, for whatever reason, are neither unusual nor interesting (for that reason- of course they might have other qualities and experiences that ARE unusual and interesting).

It is very common both historically and in recent times, and is not something that anyone has ever been bothered about (in sharp contrast to homosexuality, for example).[/quote]
Can I just say, thank you for completely invalidating the experiences of myself and the other asexual people who have posted on this thread.

I'm hiding this thread now as several posters are now affecting me. You all carry on telling us how we should feel. Bye.

[slashlover]

I am female. Also I'm in a relationship. What difference does it make to me whether a man I know fancies men, women, both, or no one?

One last post.

I don't care is someone else is gay, other people make a big fucking deal of it.
I don't care what race someone else is, other people make a big fucking deal of it.
I don't care what religion someone else is, other people make a big fucking deal of it.

You don't care about about someone else's asexuality. Guess what the ending of that sentence is.

[ClaraMumsnet]

Hello, we know AMA threads are all about questioning - but please do so respectfully, for the people who have taken the time to share their lived experiences with you.

[Wotwhywhen]

@BoreiPuriHagafen

I would like you to explain further.

A person called Annie is single, has been for 10 years. Shes heterosexual and had boyfriends before, but she hasn't for a while as raising kids or working.

This is the person who some would call long term single, between boyfriends etc.

How is that the same as person B, Juliet. She's never fancied men or women, never wanted to have sex, never felt the need or desire. She wonders why she doesn't feel those needs and desires. Her family wonders why she doesn't, her mum asks her why and she has no idea why. She feels like maybe it'll happen in time, but it never does.

Please do explain how Annie and Juliet are the same. There is no third person judging them from the outside.

Explain to me how those two women are the same.

And if you think they are the same because some third person sees them as the same, explain why third persons observations change the internal processes of Juliet from being not heterosexual, to heterosexual.

[ArcheryAnnie]

But who makes a big fucking deal of people being asexual? That's what I have been trying to discover. This is an AMA, not a support thread for asexuals. If it distresses you, then yes, its a good idea to leave the thread, but this is an AMA, where we are explicitly invited to ask all the dumb questions you can't ask on other threads.

And its a real question! Is it religion who make a big fucking deal out of asexuality? Because religions have often punished and excluded people for having the wring kind of sex, eg between unmarried people, or gay sex, but when it comes to people not having sex, religions have frequently required it's adherents to not have sex. Companies used to require the young women who worked for them not to have relationships. I just do not understand who is making a "big fucking deal" about anyone's asexuality - unless it's family members who hassle about grandchildren, or whatever - and even then that is really, really not confined to asexuals.

You don't want to answer this? Fine. But the question is still there.

(And I am not saying asexuality is not an orientation. I just don't understand where the struggle and torment come from., and this thread hasn't helped me understand. Just repeating that the struggle and torment are there, does not explain where it comes from.)

[Wotwhywhen]

I'm not hiding anything, you're not brow beating me down because you're unable to read and comprehend what has been repeatedly posted.

Go back and read.
Stop labelling asexuals as just single people. Stop accusing me of co opting.
Stop accusing me of misrepresenting and actually read the thread.

[slashlover]

I posted extensively about how it was a struggle being asexual while not knowing that asexuality was a thing.

But who makes a big fucking deal of people being asexual? That's what I have been trying to discover.

Have you honestly never heard of the 40 year old virgin trope?

Also, the frigid, cold person who has no feelings.

Or that we're not straight but a significant percentage of people think we shouldn't fall under the LGBT+ banner either.

Being invalidated and told that we just need to find the right person, need hormone treatment, need to go to the GP to be fixed. We go against basic biology because everybody fancies someone.

Here's an 85 video playlist of people mostly questioning asexual people.
There's no such thing as asexual you're just gay and in denial/a straight person looking for attention.

You just need a good fuck.

If you're asexual but not aromantic then you're being cruel to your partner.

[Wotwhywhen]

@slashlover

I do love some of the attitudes I'm seeing on this thread.

Asexuals don't get beaten, so they're not real.
They have no struggles because others can't tell they're asexual.. I can't tell someone's depressed either by looking, but depression is very real.

And also..
as several posters are now affecting me.
If I've played any part in that, I apologise to you most profusely.

[vinsurvin]

I would just like to come back to this thread to try and help explain why being asexual can be traumatising and painful for those of us who identify with this sexual orientation.

Obviously this is just my experience but I am hopeful I am not alone in feeling this way! And that it might help give clarity.

The world we live in is a world obsessed with romance. With ‘finding the one’. With happy endings that always mean marriage or babies or generally being loved up. We also live in a world obsessed with sex. So if your life does not contain either of these things and you do not have any experience of either of these things and you don’t really understand why either of these things are so important to everyone else, you are always in the position of being an outsider. You cannot share in what ties much of humanity together - the experience of romantic love and sexual desire. This, for me, has always caused me great sadness and inner turmoil, as well as shame. I feel embarrassed that I am in my thirties and have never had a relationship or had sex. I feel I am not truly an adult because I haven’t experienced romantic love or commitment. I feel ashamed every time I am asked about my romantic past or present and I have literally nothing to declare. I feel deeply sad that I have never felt romantic love for anyone and I would love to know what that feels like.

I am very fortunate to have family and friends who understand my asexuality and who support me and love me and accept me for who I am without judgement. But I have also been humiliated and shamed on numerous occasions - people laughing at me and mocking me for being a virgin so late in life, people suggesting there must be something ‘wrong’ with me that I need therapy to ‘fix’, etc. Asexuals can experience just as much harassment, aggression and marginalisation as homosexuals, and yet we are often even denied the recognition of being an orientation at all. That erasure of our identity is also painful and has led to much anguish amongst asexuals who have spent much of their life never knowing asexuality was a thing or being able to connect with other people like them, and instead thinking they had something uniquely wrong with them. If asexuality were more acknowledged and discussed it would make it much easier to live with, I’m sure.

So yes, being asexual can be incredibly hard. I would love to be normal. I would love to be able to look at another human being and feel a sexual desire for them. I would love to experience what it feels like to have a romantic relationship. I would love to be able to feel those feelings, I really would. But I don’t and I can’t and that’s just how it is. For those who seem to think we could just have a go and have a relationship anyway - imagine being forced to eat something you hate for every meal. Imagine yourself chewing that food, having the taste in your mouth, having to choke it down while gagging. That is how I feel when I’m on a date. You’d never suggest a homosexual just give dating someone of the opposite sex a go, so suggesting asexuals should spend their lives going through the motions just to be able to experience a relationship is equally absurd. For me it would be hell.

I am happy, and I have a good life. I make the best of things and I’m sure that being asexual and aromantic has given me time and headspace to pursue things I perhaps wouldn’t have if I had settled with someone or spent my youth chasing after boys. But sometimes it does feel like a half-life. And the sadness that brings is sometimes hard to bear.

I hope this helps people to understand. It is not the same as being celibate. Not at all.

[Wotwhywhen]

@vinsurvin

Don't know if you like cake, flowers or coffee... But I reckon you deserve all of them.



Thanks for sharing your experiences, they sound awfully awfully familiar.. especially:

Imagine yourself chewing that food, having the taste in your mouth, having to choke it down while gagging. That is how I feel when I’m on a date. You’d never suggest a homosexual just give dating someone of the opposite sex a go, so suggesting asexuals should spend their lives going through the motions just to be able to experience a relationship is equally absurd. For me it would be hell.

[saraclara]

Thank you @vinsurvin. I don't know why this thread started so badly, nor why it became a nasty argument between other posters when the thread was supposed to be about you.

But you've expressed yourself so articulately and poignantly that you've certainly affected me. I really hope that you're able to be happy in your own way, and that that will eventually eclipse the feeling you have of being removed from others.

[vinsurvin]

@Wotwhywhen thank you so much! I do like all of those things and appreciate you sending them my way! I am grateful for you sharing your experiences too and making me feel less alone. Thank you for your honesty.

@saraclara thank you so much for your kindness and compassion. It is much appreciated.

[WormYourHonour]

@vinsurvin

You're definitely not alone... We maybe quiet, but there's lots of us.. and there will be more once they discover themselves.

[CluelessCar]

@ArcheryAnnie
I struggled for years wanting to know what was "wrong" with me, why I didn't fancy anyone growing up. I was bullied for my lack of interest in anyone at school. Not physically, but mentally. I had hardly any friends because of it. Even my own family at the same school were involved in bullying me mentally. After leaving school, it didn't get any better. The constant "why haven't you found anyone? You're a good looking girl, it's a shame you don't have a boyfriend..." from colleagues and family. So, when I started one job, you know what I did to "fit in"? I invented a love life. I invented boyfriends just to get my colleagues to not bully me. It didn't work, I still got bullied and had lies spread about me.
But, yeah, you carry on believing there's no struggle for asexuals. We suffer from the same issue you do: How do other people see me? You worried about being rejected by others? So did I, to the point I invented boyfriends. Combine that worry with thinking that you must be damaged in some way mentally or physically because you find no one and I mean, NO ONE attractive and can you see how hard it might be growing up? I'm almost 40 never had a boyfriend, never had a sexual encounter and it's a stick for my family to beat me with. My parents were more accepting of the fact their daughter would never have children, but when that acceptance comes only a few years before they die, it's a little bit late. The rest of my family see me as some kind of strange "freak" who must be an emotionless robot. But, sure, no struggle here. My family only live across the road from me and see me daily when I go about my daily business, it's not like it's that often I get "freak" thrown at me. It's not like my family (or even colleagues) have ever told me to my face that "it's probably a good thing you're asexual. No one could ever love you anyway." By the way, the colleague who said that? Nothing got done because "it was just banter, and anyway, it's a fact."
But, I'm sure you're absolutely right and everything you've said is a fact and me and the other asexuals here are just inventing our lived experiences for shits and giggles.