I learnt to code at 27 - AMA

[OliviaSoprano]

Before anybody tells me to get over myself - I do know that there is absolutely nothing special or interesting about this! But women are still so under-represented in tech and I think far too many see it as an area that is "not for them" / a career option that wouldn't even be worth considering. I felt exactly that way three years ago but then I tried it and realised that I bloody love coding and now I'm working full time as a software engineer and really enjoy my job.

Just thought I'd start this in case there is anybody out there who may have questions about what's actually involved or how to go about starting to learn the necessary skills (or anything else obviously, it's AMA!)

For people interested in career switch, I would recommend looking at jobs boards under software job or junior developer . Occasionally jobs come up that explicitly say they will do training on the job and don’t have a Computer Sci degree as a requirement (that shouldn’t put people off applying for jobs that do list that as a requirement - I know a few people who do it without a degree in comp sci but had the right skills). I think bbc did a digital apprenticeship. I guess you also get a feel for the range of jobs available in an area and what languages/technology - don’t be intimidated by stuff you haven’t heard of. I use google a lot.

As PPs said, there are also non-coding roles in the tech sector - eg project management, business analyst, aspects of web content design/navigation, data management. Relatives work at tech start ups in areas of their previous expertise. (Eg finance)

I can write basic SQL scripts but that's about it! Our firm are currently doing a lot around RPA which I would liked to have got more into but restructuring has lead me down a slightly different tech path.

I started with a Finance background rather than IT but the role has definitely become more and more IT focused over time.

If you work in an arguably relevant role for a big company, and they have a need for more digital/coding skills, I think apprenticeships are a great bet for re-/upskilling as well. Like most companies, my company doesn't come close to using all of its apprenticeship levy pool, so I was able to make a business case for them funding me on my data science apprenticeship and I get a course worth £15k completely free plus keeping my previous salary and conditions. It's definitely worth investigating available apprenticeships.

Thank you for this great thread. Definitely should encourage more female participation in tech and challenge the assumption that you have to be male/good at maths or a young, male computer gamer to be able to code. The whole tech world is such an interesting one and so diverse and if as the OP says you like problem solving, it's a very absorbing career.

Do you know what I also realised, thinking about this thread - until I started my current course I had "coding" up on a pedestal as being this complex and difficult techy skill - even though I taught myself to programme my brother's Amstrad CPC in BASIC at the age of 8 and as a teen used to write my own html for my DiCaprio fansite. (Nothing fancy, I never did JavaScript, but it was in the days of Geocities, when idiotproof free design tools were in their infancy.) It's really not that much more difficult than, say, knitting or crocheting - it's going to take time, learning and practice for you to turn out fully fledged, decorative, functional garments, but with a bit of focus you can have basic skills quite quickly. (I feel a purl/Perl joke coming on here.)

There are shortages of talent, especially female talent, in many areas of tech and that means good pay and working conditions generally, plus all jobs are going to become increasingly digital. There are lots of good reasons to look into it.

Oooh, lots of questions! Right.

Indoctro

So if someone really wanted to start this what would you advice them starting at on codeacdemy

Yes, or something similar. The two things I would look for would be a) something free and b) something interactive. Codecademy (at least to start with on the free front) ticks both these boxes and I found it a great starting point.

I remember having no clue whatsoever what any of it meant when I started with the Intro too JavaScript but just went through the motions. I found it enjoyable enough to want to persevere so actually just went back and did the same exercises over and over until it seemed to sort of click a bit. It took a long time before I felt I had any real grasp of it though so patience is a must.

@XmasBelle

You have to pay with codeacademy after 7 days so I need another site to start on

Oh I've just seen this! You didn't in my day. There were two tiers and the free part (not pro) was good enough for getting a taster. In this case head to Free Code Camp, I didn't use it myself but have heard very good things.

I’m too old to have done CompSci at school or uni - I did Economics so clearly had some mathematical ability. However I do think maths is overstated as a requirement (unless you’re doing Data Science maybe) What you really need is an ability to think logically and solve problems. If you like logic puzzles such as Sudoku or those puzzle books that people like GCHQ put out then you’ll thrive. Attention to detail is good too. It’s not difficult but it’s great to be able to exercise your brain.

@msrobot

Congrats OP, that’s a great achievement Appreciate the thread too Do you think being good at maths is important to become a developer? I think I’m quite a logical person but my maths skills are quite rusty (not terrible, just average - haven’t done it since gcse days)

I previously attended a Code First Girls beginners course whilst at uni (for absolute beginners, mainly focused on basic web dev rather than programming) - loved it though. Never thought programming was for me as I’m a social science grad, also it’s intimidating to me how much there is to learn even to qualify for an entry level role - especially when I’d be presumably competing with comp sci grads

Hello mrsrobot! No, no need to be good, good at maths. It probably helps to not be completely and utterly phobic of numbers and to basically find calculations quite interesting but there's absolutely no need to have any sort of arithmetic skill or ability. Ability to think logically is the key and you say you have that so .

I don't have experience of other professional industries so I have nothing to compare to but the hiring process in this industry is both sort of awful but also, great (for people like me at least). There is very little focus on anything other than your raw potential at the most junior level once you are at interview. Getting an interview is the hard bit but once you have that foot in the door, the lack of comp sci degree won't really factor. Which is why getting involved in the local coding community etc can be so important.

The interview process itself is also quite an ordeal - often around four stages with technical tests thrown in. (Luckily for me) I only had to go through it once but even that was quite stressful enough!

@Cakles2010

Not sure if this was asked already, what was your background and did you have a degree already before doing the coding courses?

I did answer this vaguely up thread but I had no relevant experience whatsoever. I had worked as a restaurant manager and done lots of arty things. I dropped out of university so don't have a degree, no.

Really interesting. I have the perfect personality for coding I think, dogged, enjoy problem solving and happy to spend hours on repetitive tasks until something works, and have always had computers and enjoyed fixing them, taught myself html years ago - but I'm 52! Would love to learn to code properly

For anyone who has dabbled a bit and enjoys coding I can't recommend highly enough codewars.com, it had little coding challenges at all stages of difficulty and I bloody love it. I used to do cryptic crosswords while watching crap on TV (balance you see ) but now I just do codewars challenges.

It's really great to have a job that involves doing what I do for fun! (Not that the actual work of software development is quite like doing codewars challenges but there's no doubt the practice helps me, especially when starting out with a new language. It's great for picking up and getting used to new syntax etc)

I used to do cryptic crosswords while watching crap on TV (balance you see grin) but now I just do codewars challenges

Ha ha i do cryptic crosswords in front of Netflix

Resources:

Free course type things (full disclosure - I haven't used them but know they have a good reputation) :

www.freecodecamp.org/

www.theodinproject.com/

learn.grasshopper.app/

Codecademy as mentioned before, free options but to get access to the full range of stuff does require a monthly subscription. Completely worth it if you take it seriously though.

www.codecademy.com/

Same is true of these two (as far as I know):

upskillcourses.com/
teamtreehouse.com/

As mentioned before (best as a complement once you have an understanding of the very basics):

www.codewars.com/

This one is very good though the exercises are done in browser so can seem a bit more "faffy", you can however get feedback from "mentors".

exercism.io/

These two are the best for interview technical test practice:

www.hackerrank.com/

leetcode.com/

@Blibbyblobby

Damn I'm so jealous! I taught myself SQL and PHP in the late 90s, just on the cusp of the e-commerce wave, built one bespoke trading site (which had some pretty cool stuff like online stock control 20 years ago and continued to run on my code for 18 years after I left yes I'm still proud), did a Comp Sci masters as a mature student because I loved it but got sucked into the corporate side and ended up a Tech project manager. I only realised about a decade in that I had been at least as good as all the "real" programmers but I'd let myself get pushed into a XX chromosome career path :(

I still code when I can find an excuse though - not production code of course but I use python for bulk testing, data preparation etc

To me the difference between a professional coder and someone like myself isn't the ability to write code but the professional discipline around it - unit tests, dev ops, logging and alerting, merging changes into an existing codebase, that type of thing.

My plan B if I get made redundant is a bootcamp - does it cover that sort of thing or is it pretty much just about the coding?

If you end up deciding on putting plan B into action you will quite clearly do very well on the development side of things (and bloody love it too).

Bootcamps do teach you some of that other stuff, version control, the basics of unit testing and deployment etc. It sounds like you might not "need" a bootcamp for the actual learning bit though given your experience and current area. That's not to say one might not make sense though as a big part of what you pay for (at least in my experience) is the career guidance and the contacts that you are provided with. We had specific career coaches who assessed our CVs and taught us about the interview process, what to revise, how to sell ourselves basically. I'm now totally happy to pass on all I learned for free though and I'm sure there are many more people like me out there so you might not need to shell out for the course just for this. One way or another though, contacts really help, it's just how you get them. I imagine you already have contacts though - given your current role.

(Sorry, bit of a ramble-y response there!)

We've got a lot of women working in our Dev teams (have many teams for many different products), I'd say it's almost a 50/50 split between male and female, which is good to see.

My one gripe is, I hate the phrase "coding", just grinds my gears for some reason. 🤷‍♂️

@PhilCornwall1

We've got a lot of women working in our Dev teams (have many teams for many different products), I'd say it's almost a 50/50 split between male and female, which is good to see.

My one gripe is, I hate the phrase "coding", just grinds my gears for some reason. 🤷‍♂️

I'm happy for your company - that's great news. I've seen different stats but even the most optimistic don't put the percentage of female developers above twenty (the average of the different sources I've looked probably puts it at 15%) so still a long way to go! (Though as has been evidenced on this thread it's not so dire when within the tech field as a whole. Many more women in other roles.)

If coding grinds your gears what would you suggest as an alternative? Programming? Talking computer language? Can't account for word tastes of course but out of all of the bullshitty jargon I have to deal with on daily basis, "coding" seems incredibly benign.

Programmer fits best I think, it's what we do (amongst other hats I wear for my job). I think the strangest I've seen is the job title "Software Artist". Although saying that, I did look at some code I wrote the other day and thought, that looks nice!!

Hi OP. Many thanks for the thread - I've been following with interest. I'm 50% of the way through the first freeCodeCamp module and really enjoying it - it even makes some sense to me so far!
I'm just wondering who you did your bootcamp with?

This sounds right up my street! Thats for all the info. Thats my new year resolution sorted.

@BobGalaxy

Hi OP. Many thanks for the thread - I've been following with interest. I'm 50% of the way through the first freeCodeCamp module and really enjoying it - it even makes some sense to me so far! I'm just wondering who you did your bootcamp with?

So glad you've found it useful BobGalaxy and that you're enjoying your first taste of code!

The bootcamp I went with was General Assembly but there are a good few others I would see as totally on par (if not better) in terms of reputation so wouldn't advocate for them above all others. The advice I would give though, is to choose one that is very established and that is well known. Off the top of my head, the other two that I would definitely look at would be Makers Academy and Le Wagon though there are probably others. The key thing to remember though that one of the main things you are paying for is the name and the connections. So it's almost certainly not better value to go for a less well known one with the same syllabus as a large part of what gives these courses their value is how well known they are.

These bootcamps (obviously only know firsthand about GA) don't just teach you to code, there is also a big emphasis on teaching you how to get hired (how to sell yourself basically).

I will caveat all this though by saying that my personal opinion of the whole bootcamp industry is not unreservedly positive and gushy. I had a great time doing the course but I came into it already having a pretty good grasp of the very basics. This was not advertised as a requirement, we were told that no prior knowledge was needed - that the few online exercises we were given as pre-work would be sufficient, and so many of my classmates really didn't know anything more than what you know right now. And as result a lot of them found the whole experience extremely stressful and overwhelming and at the end didn't necessarily feel that they were "job ready" despite being told that they were. A good few months down the line I'm sure the majority do not regret the decision but I still felt that the way it was sold vs the reality didn't exactly match up and was borderline exploitative. There is a "selection process" but I think is for show frankly and that they will take most people who can pay. But then again the stats speak for themselves and it is true that the vast, vast majority (80-90%) of "graduates" find full time jobs as software developers with in six months (forgive me as those stats are made up but something close to that). Though there is a slightly loophole in that not every person who completes the course is classed as a "graduate", to achieve this classification, it's necessary to have jumped through an array of variously sized hoops above and beyond completing the course ... most do manage it but this does add an added layer of complexity to any analysis of the outcome stats.

Ha! Sorry for that rant, my feelings about this are complicated indeed! And I wouldn't want to be seen to wholeheartedly recommending someone make such a big and serious investment without putting all that out there.

TLDR - Do your homework and make sure you go in very prepared.

Thanks for an interesting thread!

I have two questions.

What would you say are the top personal qualities and personality traits needed to do well in this area? You've mentioned a few like being logical etc. Are there any others?

And what does a typical day at work look like for you? Do you work from briefs? Do you have much contact with clients?

I currently work in a very different role but would like to try and change career and coding is something I've considered. I do have a basic understanding of coding and work a lot with data at the moment and enjoy the logical, problem solving aspect of that. I also have a lot of freedom in my current role though, and sort of set my own workload and projects so I think I might struggle with working for clients. My current role is also very creative and varied so this is also something I wonder if I'd miss.

Very interesting, thank you.

What would you say are the top personal qualities and personality traits needed to do well in this area? You've mentioned a few like being logical etc. Are there any others?

There are a few that I would list: (the classic) love of problem solving, aptitude for logic, willingness to persevere attention to detail (this is the one that comes least naturally to me but undoubtedly needed), ability to make connections, and with that creativity. There are more adjectives but I actually don't think they mean much so I will stop listing. It's as simple as this in my mind, if you have the attributes that generally make a good employee (you know, communication, diligence, reasonably fast learner etc etc) and then on top of that you try coding and enjoy it then that's it, that's the test - you are suited to it and will do well.

Obviously to find out if you meet the second requirement you need to try it first but a) if the sound of it is appealing in the first place that's a pretty good indicator and b) doing a short online course or two is enough to work it out. Much easier and more reliable a method than looking at a list of words and trying to work out if they match your personality.

People are often hilariously taken aback when I tell them my job now as I don't live up to any one of the many tech stereotypes out there (look- wise or personality-wise) and I think that's part of the reason it never even half crossed my mind as a potential career path and why it took me sort of falling into it by complete accident to realise that it's perfect for me. Which is why I would now be very reluctant to discount anyone who has not tried it first!

This is really interesting. An ex was a “coder” (is that a thing) I remember walking into his room and being baffled by whiteboards with random numbers and letters on. But then I was shocked when I picked things up as I recognised some things from HTML codes on MySpace days I used to love doing that and working out what was wrong and why a song wasn’t playing or a text colour wasn’t right. I might have a look at these free sites, covid has wiped my industry out. Thanks for the info Op!