I learnt to code at 27 - AMA

[OliviaSoprano]

Before anybody tells me to get over myself - I do know that there is absolutely nothing special or interesting about this! But women are still so under-represented in tech and I think far too many see it as an area that is "not for them" / a career option that wouldn't even be worth considering. I felt exactly that way three years ago but then I tried it and realised that I bloody love coding and now I'm working full time as a software engineer and really enjoy my job.

Just thought I'd start this in case there is anybody out there who may have questions about what's actually involved or how to go about starting to learn the necessary skills (or anything else obviously, it's AMA!)

I'm 44 and thinking of changing career (from teacher) would you say that's too late?

@connelly, coding isn't maths and it is definitely possible to do it without being a mathematical genius. It's more about (as I think I've said upthread but it's been a while) enjoying the sort of logical thinking/problem solving. Which is something that is common to maths so there is crossover. If you don't enjoy maths for reasons other than not being good at it/ struggling with mental arithmetic (you definitely don't need to be good at arithmetic) then that may be a sign that you are not particularly well suited to coding but wouldn't be enough reason not to try it and see for yourself.

I have definitely said it before but I will say it again - the one and only quality that is really a true test of aptitude for this vocation is an enjoyment of it. So if you are even vaguely toying with the idea, please do give it a go and find out!

Web development is one of the easier areas to self teach/bootcamp your way into and is still very in demand. It's all actually a bit hazier than it can appear when you're starting out though so I wouldn't get hung up on these things at all at the beginning. I'd probably start off with some web devvy stuff that has an actual front end just because as a beginner it is more accessible but don't neglect language/programming fundamentals too. Then come back to those questions a few months into learning when you sure that you are enjoying it and want to stick with it. You can then work out which bits you enjoy most.

See my mammoth post describing my bootcamp curriculum for a bit more detail on one way to get quite a broad overview of "full-stack" development.

@Hilda41 - it is not too late, not at all. Lots of companies are becoming much, much better at hiring people from diverse backgrounds and that includes a) women and b) career changers. I see job ads that specify the latter reasonably frequently.

That's not to say it will be easy of course - and obviously, only quit your job etc. once you have ascertained that you are 100% into coding, and that you have done enough to know that you enjoy it very much!

Hello @OliviaSoprano im another full stack dev of 25+ years. I know i can do most jobs in the stack and i dont worry.about the language as i know i can pick it up easily. Love your enthusiasm. Think im jaded now though lol. I agree with someone upthread who said retention after maternity is an issue that needs to be addressed. Having had some kids and a divorce and now perimenopausal i have lost my enthusiasm and coasted for a bit and questioned whether i should leave dev or not...women my age still doing dev (and not moved to BA's, test, scrum masters or some other role) are few.and far between. Im hoping in a year or two my mojo will return and i will come back with a roar.

Great thread, following with interest!

What is code please

Code comes from the term ‘source code’, which are the instructions people write to get computers to do what we want them to do. The confusion often comes in with the term, ‘coding’, when really it should be programming (much like cryptographers don’t really like the term codebreakers) but it generally means the same thing.

As the OP helpfully posts, programming is not the realm of the ‘geeks’ anymore and that much of the software currently used (a little nod to the posters on here who learnt COBOL and FORTRAN back in the day!), does a lot of the donkey work for us, with buttons/drop and drag/reusable modules etc.

Even a lot of the 4th generation types mentioned on here, such as SQL, HTML, CSS etc that aren’t programming languages per se because they don’t have branching or iteration etc. were designed so that they are closer to the English language and therefore, not so scary to use.

So, if the OP can encourage more into the field, including women, then that is fantastic!

OP, my question to you is, how are women treated now? I guess it might help WFH a bit more. I am ashamed to admit it that I quit in the early 2000s because of the rife sexism that I faced and did not challenge it (ashamed to admit it). I have spent the rest of my career getting more young people the skills needed for the industry, including more BAME diversity and women but there is still a way to go!

This is not a question but I would like to point out that I entered IT/Data processing (whatever you want to call it) in the 1970s. There were lots of women in IT then and no-one needed a maths degree to enter as a coder/programmer.
I appreciate the languages are differant from then - but I too used data modelling and SQL during my career. I ended up project managing and systems analysis (which is the next level after being a coder IMO )
I have been challenged in the past on here that I could not possibly have worked in IT in the 1970s - but we women were there at the start. There are lots of differant disciplines in the technology that are open to people interested in IT where women do particularly well. You do not have to start as a coder.

I have been challenged in the past on here that I could not possibly have worked in IT in the 1970s - but we women were there at the start.

Absolutely there were plenty of women back then and I’m sorry previous posters have not believed you.

For decades, women were leaders in computer science but then, in 1984, their representation in the field dropped dramatically in a way unseen in any other scientific or technical field.

The first personal computers weren't much more than toys and they were marketed almost exclusively to boys and men. Computer geek culture also began to emerge during this period and TV shows, movies, and video games all reaffirmed that computers were the domain of boys.

By 1984, the first generation of students who could have had a home computer entered college. Research at the time found parents were much more likely to buy computers for boys than girls and many more boys had experience programming prior to entering college. As a result, many young women discovered that they were already significantly behind their male peers from day one and, often facing discouragement from their fellow students and professors alike, women left computer science programmes in droves.

Interestingly, prior to the introduction of the home computer and the gendered marketing of it as a 'boy' device, women were very active in the field and saw a sharp increase in their numbers between 1970 and 1984, just as you describe.

Their representation in the field peaked in 1982 when 37% of computer science degrees were awarded to women; by 2011, according to the Computing Research Association, that number fell to 12%.

For adult readers who would like to learn more about the unsung female heroes who built the Internet, I highly recommend “Broad Band" at www.amightygirl.com/broad-band

To introduce kids to the brilliant women who programmed the world's first all-electronic computer, I recommend the chapter book "Women Who Launched The Computer Age" for ages 6 to 8 www.amightygirl.com/women-launched-computer-age and the picture book “How a Team of Women Coded the Future” for ages 5 to 9 www.amightygirl.com/instructions-not-included

For an inspiring book about pioneering women in technology - which includes a variety of hands-on STEM projects that kids can try at home - I also highly recommend ‘Gutsy Girls Go for Science: Programmers’ for ages 8 to 11 at www.amightygirl.com/gutsy-girls-programmers

Interesting thread, thank you OP. I used to work for a tech company before maternity leave but in procurement rather than anything technical. I would love to learn code and get into a technical career but can't afford it. I did see women in cyber boot camp but even if successful couldn't risk leaving my job for a 12 week full time course.

This has been a really interesting thread! It inspired me to get on free code camp last night and do the first couple of modules on html and css which I really enjoyed. I have been thinking about a career change for a while and I wonder if coding could be it? Will continue through these courses and see how I get on! I love languages, maths, cryptic crosswords etc so it could be quite a good fit in that respect.

I've also been inspired by this thread and have worked through the first 2 sets of freecodecamp lessons yesterday. Progress slowed because I decided I really should be taking notes, so I went back to the beginning and did the whole thing again, making notes. Now on to Applied Visual Design. I'm really enjoying it!!

So interesting OP. Thanks for this thread. I'm going to pass the info onto one of my DC who has just left school.

I've only just noticed all of these new posts. Will do my best to answer all new questions. Thank you very much to the input from my (wiser and more experienced) fellow "female people who write or have written code for money" (or whatever you call yourselves!)

@ChloeDecker

OP, my question to you is, how are women treated now? I guess it might help WFH a bit more. I am ashamed to admit it that I quit in the early 2000s because of the rife sexism that I faced and did not challenge it (ashamed to admit it). I have spent the rest of my career getting more young people the skills needed for the industry, including more BAME diversity and women but there is still a way to go!

In my short career (two years employed) I have not worked with another woman in a team or on a cross team project ever. I have probably worked with around 20 developers/managers/project managers so those aren't great stats. That's not to say there haven't been other women in my two companies but few enough that this can happen. On the plus side though, I have only experienced overt sexism on a few occasions and all were comments from the same very senior man. He made two (yes - two!) separate "jokes" about me getting pregnant. Pretty impressive considering our crossover within the company only lasted for a matter of weeks. I didn't say anything at the time but I did bring it up in when he was gone and made it very clear that I wouldn't have put up with it long term. All of my other colleagues have always been fine (or if not fine then not fine for reasons not rooted in misogyny).The culture can feel very stereotypically masculine sometimes, not in the macho sense as my team mates aren't of that genre but the humour and topics of conversation. I would prefer a bit more balance but I am very socially malleable so get along with them all well and there is no sense in which I am othered.

The point that has been raised a few times about female retention at the slightly later stage is something I have thought about a lot. I would like to think I will continue as a developer as I climb the ladder but I am also not naive to the fact that my social skills (coupled with the fact that I am not one of those genius programmers who no one would let stop coding) could well make me appear like ideal management material a few years down the line. That may well tempt me. Right now I hope it wouldn't but who knows?

@Fetarabbit

Interesting thread, thank you OP. I used to work for a tech company before maternity leave but in procurement rather than anything technical. I would love to learn code and get into a technical career but can't afford it. I did see women in cyber boot camp but even if successful couldn't risk leaving my job for a 12 week full time course.

There are other ways to learn to code! Please don't give up on the idea of it if it really is just the practicalities of this putting you off. There are part time bootcamps and many, many other resources you can use independently before making that step. I would highly recommend (to the point of enforcing it if I could) that anybody considering a bootcamp does lots of independent stuff using online resources first anyway. It's not for everyone and the only way to find out if it's for you is to try and definitely best to try for free (or tens of pounds rather than thousands)

Damn - name change fail there. That was me!

@Nowisthemonthofmaying

This has been a really interesting thread! It inspired me to get on free code camp last night and do the first couple of modules on html and css which I really enjoyed. I have been thinking about a career change for a while and I wonder if coding could be it? Will continue through these courses and see how I get on! I love languages, maths, cryptic crosswords etc so it could be quite a good fit in that respect.

Woo! Great to hear! I too love languages and cryptic crosswords and think I would have loved maths if I hadn't pigeon holed myself as an arty type when I was a teen (damn arty family influence).

I hope you have continued with the courses and that you are still loving it. Web dev gets a lot funnier when you move on from plain old HTML/CSS to the JavaScript (IMVHO). That is before you realise how bloody ridiculous JavaScript is of course.

@Lougle

I've also been inspired by this thread and have worked through the first 2 sets of freecodecamp lessons yesterday. Progress slowed because I decided I really should be taking notes, so I went back to the beginning and did the whole thing again, making notes. Now on to Applied Visual Design. I'm really enjoying it!!

I have nothing to add to this other than - yay! Well done for starting and long may the enjoyment continue

@Fere

I'm so sorry, I'm only just seeing your post now (must've missed it before). I don't have access to my PMs. I will check it later. If I didn't reply I am very sorry. Good luck with the bootcamp applications - that is very exciting!

I’m currently learning Python on YouTube, mainly so I can eventually use it for data analysis, & thought I’d share - I’m finding this video really good to work through.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=_uQrJ0TkZlc&vl=en

@OliviaSoprano no problem! I am starting my bootcamp with Makers on Monday!

@Fere

Oh wow - congratulations! Makers has a very good reputation (as I'm sure you know). I'm actually a bit envious - bootcamp was one of the best times of my life (in a very hard work sort of way!)

I would love to do this but I'm utter rubbish at maths! Well some you for achieving this a little later than normal x

@pinkandmarshmallowclouds I really think you should look at Free Code Camp. It's a real drip, drip, drip approach. Each task has hints and a video available, too. It really is step by step. 'First you will change the text in the heading'. Challenge done. 'Now you will change the size of the text.' Challenge done...

I'd really recommend taking notes from the beginning, though, because later they say 'do this' and you realise that you need to use the code that you learned about 5 lessons ago, and you've forgotten whether you use a . or a #, etc.

@pinkandmarshmallowclouds programming has nothing to do with Maths.

Please read Olivia's posts and she explains very well what's needed - grit and curiosity.

@OliviaSoprano I am just getting out of Covid, got infected just over 2 weeks ago. I am building up my strength
Th so I can be productive by the time we are FT in December.

I chosen Makers because of good opinions I got from older and newer alumni.
I am really looking forward to it. I have so much bits of knowledge I picked up working so far in IT I know it would be useful in programming. Nearly half of the cohort is female. I hope that is a good sign of things to come.