I’m a secret millennial TERF in academia. AMA

[RealityNotEssentialism]

Well, I should preface by saying that I consider TERF to be a slur but I am gender-critical and believe that women are entitled to sex-based protections because it is sex that determines that women are treated differently to men. I of course support trans people having legal protections against discrimination but not at women’s expense.

I work in academia. Most of my colleagues are woker than woke. Many have pronouns in their email signature and bios. Because I’m fairly young, people tend to assume that I agree with the woke mob too when nothing could be further from the truth. I can’t come out though as my career would be over. It can be frustrating and lonely and I have to bite my lip when colleagues tell me that ‘TERFS should be fired’ and similar. I am tolerant of different views but it’s very clear that this doesn’t run both ways for those who disagree with me. It’s odd being told (albeit indirectly) constantly that I am hateful and a threat to people’s safety. I can’t abandon logic and truth though. I just can’t. To vent, I used to run a secret anon twitter account but I shut it down because I was worried about the lengths that TRA doxxers go to.

Feel free to AMA.

I wonder how they define "hetero" in their motion above? Have they omitted the "sexual" bit for a very conspicuous reason?

I've read about half the thread. Sorry now out of time.

Everyone who hides below the parapet just helps to fuel this nonsense. You really do need to vocalise the opposition to this nonsense. I have recently been on a social media page of an MP in an area that is very supportive to this rubbish. I was called transphobic within a post. I am not. I will contact this MP and state my views (sadly NOT my MP so they may not care).

I am on a board of a charity and the very necessity of a board is diversity. (Charities Commission/Good governance etc). So if you have the opportunity to be on a board with different views to the main then take it. The more of us who speak out and speak out intelligently the better.

For those of you who wont, who do you think will? I retire in a few years, so it wont affect me in the work place for much longer, but if you are 30 years old, plus or minus a few years, this will be a very long time to work with this oppression. And what about your children? (Trust me mine are already well aware of this "debate").

Interesting thread.

I have had a few instances of the room going quiet, albeit amongst friends, when I have mentioned my views on the Karen White case or Mermaids.

Can someone give me an example of this "pronouns in bios" please as I am not on SM. Does it mean that if I had a Twitter profile I would have an intro stating "she" - TIA

I wonder how they define "hetero" in their motion above? Have they omitted the "sexual" bit for a very conspicuous reason?

I wonder how they define "hetero" in their motion above? Have they omitted the "sexual" bit for a very conspicuous reason?

@RealityNotEssentialism - but there's loads of you on this thread! You can easily PM each other and start something.

I was there at the birth of the GC movement (on various FB groups and here) and all the women who are now GC legends, and all the rest of us also -rans were at that stage just milling about, wondering what the fuck we were going to do. Then they stepped up. Like us they also had lots to lose. Their lives weren't perfect or protected from fallout. But if they hadn't taken a stand then, I wouldn't be allowed to even write this post now. The debate is what women make of it. I'm also in the "can't someone else do it?!" camp, so I do sympathise.

Because I’m fairly young, people tend to assume that I agree with the woke mob too when nothing could be further from the truth. I can’t come out though as my career would be over. It can be frustrating and lonely and I have to bite my lip when colleagues tell me that ‘TERFS should be fired’ and similar

You're not alone in academia, OP although I'm a borderline babyboomer, not a millenial.

Strength to your arm!

Me too. I have to keep quiet!

Do you work in the SW? I think I might know you..

I should also say that I’m also a under 30’s GC academic!

I wonder how they define "hetero" in their motion above? Have they omitted the "sexual" bit for a very conspicuous reason?

Yep exactly. To follow through the TRA logic to the end, it eradicates sex-attraction and is therefore homophobic. It's logic vomit.

Also just discovered I'm a Millennial! That makes me feel young. The rest of the thread is depressing as shit.

Good luck and solidarity OP.

I’m gender critical and an academic. I work in a related field in a very ‘woke’ uni. My post is insecure and I’m afraid to put my head above the parapet.

My hot take as a pro lgbtq cis woman is that by even siding with TERF you are anti-women. There are cis women who can't have children naturally. Are they not women by terf standards?

There are cis women who cant breastfeed. Are they not "real" women by terf standards?

Basically there are cis women and trans women who's bodies do more or less the same thing. If you are trans - you are a woman. or a man.

The thing with TERF is that they're normally perfectly fine with F2M transistions despite it being the exact same thing with different gift wrapping.

I just dont get being terf.

There are cis women who can't have children naturally. Are they not women by terf standards?

I don't follow your logic? No one defines women by their ability to gestate or breastfeed, including so-called TERFs? Or are you responding to someone's post?

Basically there are cis women and trans women who's bodies do more or less the same thing. If you are trans - you are a woman. or a man.

Oh maybe you're taking about the fact that male and female bodies have a lot of functions and parts in common? If so I think you'll find that's simply a result of make and female bodies both being human and mammals.

But that doesn't therefore mean differences don't exist or are unimportant. Why would it?

Doublebubblebubble are you being ironic? If not wtf are you on about?

Trans is about identity and gender. In order to properly push this agenda, TRAs are attempting to eradicate biological sex as a concept separate and (as I see it because of the existence of scientific facts) immutable.

Womens' bodies and transwomens' bodies do more or less the same thing? Is that genuinely what you believe? If so that is really quite a shocking lack of understanding of really basic science. My toddlers understand that men and women's bodies are different.

As for all the other stuff, ie childless women not being women, that makes literally no sense.

How is it you're defining women exactly - if you can explain that it could help.

@Doublebubblebubble

My hot take as a pro lgbtq cis woman is that by even siding with TERF you are anti-women. There are cis women who can't have children naturally. Are they not women by terf standards?

There are cis women who cant breastfeed. Are they not "real" women by terf standards?

Basically there are cis women and trans women who's bodies do more or less the same thing. If you are trans - you are a woman. or a man.

The thing with TERF is that they're normally perfectly fine with F2M transistions despite it being the exact same thing with different gift wrapping.

I just dont get being terf.

Clearly you don't as none of the examples you've given are examples of gender-critical science (aka TERF positions)

Perhaps if you educated yourself on what gender critical feminists actually believe, you'd be able to engage in constructive discussion

Oh I love to go watching the sea lions while hanging out with my mate, Bunbury

What does TERF mean?

I’m a GC millennial who has spent her entire career to date working at a university (but am not an academic). I work in the hard physical sciences.

I think this is a generational thing - our PhD students (who are younger than me) are unbearably woke, especially the women. Some of the men, I think, probably are GC if they spent enough time thinking about it. Fortunately, being younger than me, and open to debate we have been able to discuss but I’ve only ever argued ‘a point’ and not ‘my point’ iyswim.

Some of my friends at work are also GC, but I’ve also had very awkward conversations with people I thought were sane who are very much ‘be kind’ - one in particular I found very upsetting as she’s a close friend. I don’t feel it is safe to be openly GC, although there are a few respected academics I know in all fields whose opinion I would love to know. I would hope that as scientists they hold the fundamental concept of biological sex as true.

I am not at all transphobic, in fact I’m a very inclusive colleague, who champions anyone who needs it. I am, however, worried about the eradication of woman as a concept. I get very bothered when ‘sex’ is left out of equality and diversity stuff, very annoyed when it is replaced with ‘gender’. The Accenture inclusivity video did the rounds at work this week. I thought it was a hugely powerful video but I was appalled they didn’t include sex in it. My employer also doesn’t list sex as one of the protected characteristics - I have questioned it but was fobbed off with some nonsense about having consulted with inclusive employers.

@WaltzingBetty
What have I got wrong? this is an AMA on mumsnet of all places, not a dissertation.

It's strange but I wasn't expecting to be attacked for using actual terf language. Kind of blew my mind a bit.

a good friend of mine is m2f (and my cousin is also m2f transitioning - pre op) and she regularly gets told by terfs and bigots that she isnt a woman because she can not have a baby, regularly. It breaks my heart for her, and more selfishly because when I saw a couple of the delightful "messages" she had recieved, I had just had a miscarriage. It was unbelievably hurtful for both of us.

Not trying to be funny but surely there have to be some differences of opinion, whether simple or long winded, on this thread otherwise this just turns into a boring old echo chamber, right? Or maybe y'all want it to just be a thread full of "I'm right because this group confirms it."

I don't know?

You also didnt need to be quite so aggressive with your disagreement either, it is possible to agree to disagree and still speak to people, and about people, with respect.

My stance is that m2f people are actual human beings and women who should be afforded the same rights that all of us as women have fought for.
There is no harm in including them. And it is more harmful for women to exclude them.

Terfism is an issue because you use the language, legal and social power of feminism; not to fight for the rights of all women AND equality, which is true feminism; but instead to attack the idea that trans women being legitimate in the eyes of the law damages cis women. It just makes us look ridiculously petty and childish too.

You're a woman who wants to be a man, fine, come on in. (I've yet to see a terf be anti f2m).

You're a man who wants to be a woman,

HoW DaRE YoU!!

-Only cis women are women.

-Only cis women can do x, y, z.

-Our safe space is being infiltrated by men!!

-If youre a woman prove it.

Terfs also influence the ignorance of men in power and governments in order to pit one group against another.
"Cis women are better than trans-women because..."

It turns into a tier, or more disturbingly, a caste system for human beings. We shouldn't be doing this, It's 2020.

some terfs believe that trans women are women but that the just shouldnt be given the same rights as us. That makes no sense. No sense at all.

A common strategy among people who happen to be in a minority of their own, like women, is infighting. Togetherness can be built upon. Hate always leads to more hate.

I know I AM going to get hate for this but I have lgbtq people in my life who I love (2 trans people, a gay MIL, and gay friends and colleagues who I respect and admire) as human beings, so I am an ally, you can call me a hippy if you want because I am. I'm as left wing liberal as they come. I want peace and love and respect for all. Hate is what I dont understand. The trans people in my life don't want to or mean to harm to anyone, especially women, they were just simply born in the wrong body. It hurts my heart that people are so hateful for completely surface issues. All they want to do is live their lives as themselves.

I have a dd and a ds and if either one of them came out to me as trans I'd support them 100%. I'd fight equally hard for them to have the same rights too.

My question to terfs is; lets say law changes so that trans women can be classed as "mother" on a birth/adoption certificate for example.

why does that matter? What difference does it make? Who does that hurt?

(The challenge for you here is to try not to say "women" as your answer because a word on a piece of paper doesn't hurt women. It simply hurts egos)

My stance is that m2f people are actual human beings

Of course. No GC person or TERF will disagree with that sentiment.

There is no harm in including them. And it is more harmful for women to exclude them.

No harm. I doubt the many victims of transwomen's violence would agree with that. I doubt the Muslim and Jewish women, and those traumatised by sexual violence who are asked to share showers, changing rooms etc with Tw would agree with you either. Why is it more harmful for women to exclude them?

attack the idea that trans women being legitimate in the eyes of the law damages cis women

TW are not legitimate women in the eyes of the law - TW are legally male unless they have a GRC, and even then there are exceptions legally. Natal women are vulnerable to males, whether they be TW or not. To ignore that is incredibly dangerous for women.

I'm as left wing liberal as they come. I want peace and love and respect for all.

Me too

because a word on a piece of paper doesn't hurt women

Words are important. How do you fight your oppression if you can't name it. If you can't say the word 'gay' how can you stand up for your MIL and fight those that discriminate against her because of it, how do you defend her rights?

OP I think I followed you on Twitter.

Do you think a majority of uni staff agree with this crap?

I hope you don’t mind me saying this
It feels like, before people became sheep, this would have been a discussion between three crazy academics in a pub.

Now, with everyone making money from talking shit, and people looking to believe in nothing or virtue signal, it’s a tiny minority opinion that’s got into everything. I also think social media is an issue.

What do you think?