I am Jewish AMA

[Bells3032]

Following answering some Q&As on a thread about the programme Unorthodox thought i'd do an AMA here. I have looked and don't think there's been one since like 2018.

I am a traditional/modern orthodox Jew so not Hasidic like the show but I actually do talks on Judaism as part of my job and I so my knowledge is fairly good and I am rarely embarrassed or offended by questions.

So go ahead AMA

Oh I’m perhaps embarrassed to admit this, but something @Desiringonlychild said about having limited options of where to live has really struck me. Is that just Orthodox Jews or all Jews? Do you have to live as part of the community? Is that a law in the Talmud? I genuinely had no idea about that. I mean, obviously I knew that there were large Jewish communities, but I also thought that Jews just lived in the community among others. I didn’t realise it was a regulation. Is it?

@JellyTotsGrewTooBig it is not a regulation. It's just that if you are orthodox, as a minimum, you need a synagogue, a mikveh that is within walking distance. You probably need kosher food shops (you can order online but in the past they used to only deliver to certain areas, hopefully they stepped up their game for covid). You need Jewish schools for your kids (though Jewish schools tend to draw from a large geographic area, my husband cycled to school from Hendon to Kingsbury and he had classmates from radlett). Families would prefer to live within the eruv (which is an area within which observant Jews can carry or push objects on the Sabbath, usually demarcated by poles and you need council approval to erect it). There is eruvin in North london, borehamwood and I think the Gants hill area, but not anywhere as you can imagine. Without an eruv, mothers can't use strollers on shabbat. No wheelchairs on shabbat without the eruv either. So of course it's preferable to live within the eruv. This combination of factors mean that Golders Green, Hendon, Edgware, Finchley, Stamford hill and Borehamwood which have a wealth of Jewish amenities are always more sought after. And of course for such a communal religion, you would like nice people to have shabbat dinners and meals with.
A lady once told me at shabbat dinner- that if you were serious about Judaism , you would live in Hendon, not a non Jewish area. A bit of an exaggeration maybe but I think that it's pretty hard for frum Jews to move out unless there was an effort to establish another community somewhere else. But generally for that to happen, a few families have to move together, build a synagogue, get the infrastructure running...it's a little bit like being a pioneer

I am a liberal Jew so it's easier for me because I am not strict. But I still ended up living in Finchley cos I want to live near this reform Jewish primary school. I also wanted to live near synagogues that I could walk to if I woke up late. I wanted to be near my MIL so I could celebrate passover with her and still be able to go back to sleep in my own bed (this did not work out at all this year due to covid). And a lot of reform Jews also live in the stereotypically Jewish areas so I am probably not alone in this respect. I can't imagine moving outside London to an area without other jews, I think it would be harder to be a Jewish family.

@StamfordHill we don't davka have liver on Friday night and fish shabbos lunch, I think i just randomly swapped one shabbos and it worked better for the kids.

Ah ok. Thank you.

As I said, quite a few pastors give a "meaning" to when Christ says, drinking this cup. Like it was a specific cup, that had a specific meaning, which is why he said ... Drink of THIS cup.

Thanks for that.

Obvs as a Christian, we are "taught" various things based on potential original meanings.

Of course without coming from that background, none knows truly what (if any) symbols may or may not be relavent.

Blessings on your n your family, and may you prosper n be at peace. 😁

And to everyone else, keep safe, stay home and live longer 😜

@JellyTotsGrewTooBig it's not a law, no. Chabad are a strand of orthodoxy who deliberately move out to far flung places to do outreach work with unaffiliated Jews. It's not easy to be isolated from the community though.

Can I ask about the Jewish ambulance service, in which way are they different to the regular ambulance service?

@Desiringonlychild that is really informative. Thank you.

@JellyTotsGrewTooBig no problem..this is why Jews would continue to stay in London even when many of their counterparts in the same jobs have moved out, despite having larger families. Remote working probably wouldn't change that either. There may be more of a push in future to establish more satellite communities in cheaper areas esp when commuting isn't such a big issue but I think establishing a community and all the amenities would take time. So for now, most Jews would stick to NW London. Or Borehamwood/Stamford hill etc

@Elladisenchanted I love the word “davka!”

My family have always denied being Jewish, despite old family photos showing them outside the synagogue, and my maternal great grandparents speaking Yiddish. We do, however, have odd traditions such as always eating latkes and ponczki on Christmas Eve and matzoh at Easter. Friday night was always chulent (and called that) as well. I suspect the denial came in before the war, when antisemitism was on the rise.

I don’t live in a Jewish community as such, my synagogue is about 20 minutes drive away and yes I drive when I attend. I’m the only Jew I know in real life who covers her hair full time (apart from a distant relative in the USA who I never get to see) although I belong to a couple of online communities.

@MrsSchadenfreude sounds like they buried their Jewish identity to save themselves. Its not uncommon. Historically this happened in Spain during the Spanish inquisition. A lot of Jews went 'underground', living Christian lives but practicing secretly; they were called Marranos. I think some Spanish people descended from Marranos sometimes have the odd Jewish custom. What is ponczi by the way?

@pinkrocker hatzola is entirely run and staffed by volunteers from the community (not paid) and funded by the community. Because they are local they can be on the scene in minutes which can be the difference between life and death in something like a heart attack. They also deal with a lot of minor injuries and can help assess whether someone needs to go to a and e. NWAS are fantastic (I live in Manchester) but seriously overstretched and ambulances can take a long time to come. The majority are first responders. They work in addition to NWAS not as a replacement for it.

In the early 60s, before they had children, my parents lived in Portugal for a year. Dm tells how she was in the synagogue on Yom Kippur, upstairs in the busy women's gallery, and there were a few women there dressed in black, crossing themselves and praying on their knees. And downstairs, in the men's section, from time to time a woman would enter from a side door, approach the Ark where the Torah scrolls are kept (there is no altar in a synagogue) genuflect, cross herself and leave. Local congregants explained to dm that these women were descendants of the Marranos, Jews forcibly converted to Catholicism in the time of the Inquisition, who had nonetheless managed to retain a vestige of Jewish identity hundreds of years later. Their way of worship was accepted by the synagogue on Yom Kippur.

Ponczki - doughnuts? That's my family's word for them. Polish, I presume.

I grew up in the NW London Jewish bubble, but have since lived all over the world, mainly not in Jewish areas. I’m not especially observant so for me it’s not a problem. I interact with the Jewish community more online than in daily face to face life.

I find that very moving about the Marrano women PikesPeaked.

No disrespect meant, but the Christian Bible is shockingly inaccurate in regards to anything Jewish related

Out of interest, have you read it? Do you have any other examples StamfordHill?

Oh and during Hanukkah you must eat doughnuts! They’re called Sufganiyah and are jam doughnuts. Hanukkah celebrates the miracle of the oil lasting for 8 days, so that’s why we eat fried food.

What’s the justification for circumcision?

I don’t mean to be goady but isn’t wilfully maiming a baby for anything other than medical reasons a bit off?

I feel the same about cultural ear piercing, and any other cultural/religious practises that alter the bodies of underage people who can’t consent.

@booFuckingHoo2 there’s no “justification” for circumcision. It’s a religious commandment and cultural practice. Obviously it’s not something which is generally harmful and is carried out by a variety of cultures and traditions globally.

Respectfully, Boo, I can tell you why we circumcise but it won't make any sense to you because you are coming from a totally different culture and beliefs system.

We do it because we sincerely believe in Gd and His commandments and that if He has instructed us to do so then it's the right thing to do. Keeping the Torah and commandments isn't an addendum to my life, it's the purpose of it, and the way I interact with the world, view it and attempt to live in it is derived from that understanding.

As an aside the AAP note that the health benefits of newborn circumcision outweigh the risks, so I don't think maiming is the right word.

Is there a reason that adult men cant be circumcised like converts are?

It won't be news to you that many people do consider it harmful CayrolBaaskin!

For me, I find the continued modern practice of newborn circumcision a bit baffling. I have often wondered how Jewish parents who grew up in cultures that prioritise bodily integrity and consent square this circle. It feels like I'm missing something. Do parents ever feel any misgivings or is newborn circumcision simply regarded as totally harmless?

I cross posted with you Ellaisenchanted.

Yes, many of us do feel misgivings and go ahead with it. Who ever said the choices we have to make in life are easy?

Despite this being an AMA, circumcision is one subject I won't engage with OL. Every thread on Judaism ends up being derailed by people attacking circumcision. People simply telling us that we are wrong and cruel, without any interest in discussing or approaching any understanding of a different point of view. I do discuss this in RL, because being face-to-face with each other changes the nature of the interaction.

I'm not saying that's what is happening on this thread - yet.