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AMA

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

I'm a trans man and local trans activist, AMA

999 replies

Sideris · 05/01/2020 07:10

Hi there, folks.

As the title says, I'm here to respond to questions in good nature.

For a bit of background information, I'm 30 years old, a trans activist out of necessity (being the first 'out' trans person in numerous spaces, which didn't have any rules or regulations before, but have since been commended for ease of process by some new trans members or trans members who have been referred by me), have been 'passing' for about three years, now.

OP posts:
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theflushedzebra · 07/01/2020 00:06

Pencils, I think the "honour system" only applied to transwomen who genuinely passed - in attitude, as well as appearance. Ie. would not be perceived by women at all as males.

I agree with you, it's a tiny number.

Jux · 07/01/2020 00:10

I don't remember anyone assigning dd female when she was born. They looked at her genitals, and observed they were those of a female. That's pretty much what happens when a baby is born. There may be a discussion in a TEENY TINY number of cases when a baby is intersex where the consultants and parents have a discussion, but I think these days even then there is not an 'assignation' of sex.

Anyway, why do you think that changing yourself in such a drastic way with all the personal (and societal) implications shouldn't be subject to a few checks before it's entered into. It took over 3 years for the nhs to decide that I did indeed have MS, the nhs requires peopleto undergo all sorts of checks and balances before they do certain treatments and surgeries. Why should they not do that? If a mistake is made, and ther de-transition figures continue to rise, then it is essential they know why and try to sort that. The potential waste of resources is quite serious.

PencilsInSpace · 07/01/2020 00:16

If they passed nobody would have noticed they were there. There would have been no need for an 'honour system'.

OldCrone · 07/01/2020 00:32

@StealthMama The Scottish Government has gone further and are now consulting on a draft bill for changing the GRA in Scotland to self-ID.
www.gov.scot/news/gender-recognition-consultation-opens/

Mummyoflittledragon · 07/01/2020 04:21

As humans, we have assigned meaning to objects, people and things. If I say I drink from a mug, we all know that to be this: Brew. If we cannot agree to the observation of genitalia being determined as male or female, how can we agree as a society on anything?

How about 10% of us demand that a mug is now known as a plate? And that everyone must call mugs plates otherwise we’re platists. Or that dogs must now be known as cats otherwise we are catist. Because this in essence is what you’re saying. This reminds me of Prince (the artist formerly know as Prince) - except he made up a symbol rather than appropriated another.

If we cannot agree on anything, the whole structure of categorisation and language is meaningless. Progress is only better for some snd detrimental to others. All humans are equal but some are more equal than others. Welcome to the dark ages ladies.

Cwenthryth · 07/01/2020 04:51

The prisons point, or rather a particular case - Tara Hudson - was what first flicked a switch for me in realising how significant this issue is for women.

Tara was sent to a male prison, and there was a huge petition and mass outcry, because Tara has long blond hair and big breast implants, wears long nails, high heels and a lot of makeup, and in some highly posed still photos almost passes. The petition made points about how Tara ‘lives her life as a woman’, has had surgery etc, and how awful it is for her in the male prison estate. On the face of it, my response was, yes this person seems incredibly vulnerable and at risk in the male estate.

Then more details came to light about Tara - Tara has a fully functioning penis, referred to on an adult sex worker website as a ‘seven inch surprise’ that Tara enjoys revealing to people who might not expect it, and their reactions to it, and Tara was in prison for an incredibly violent assault on male bar staff that left the victim with significant facial/dental injuries. Suddenly it was all too clear that Tara is a male-bodied person, with the strength, socialisation and entitlement that comes from being a male, and no matter what cosmetic alterations had been made Tara was not ‘living as a woman’ whilst making a living from using a penis and committing violent offences in a male pattern. This was not someone I could support entering the female prison estate, however vulnerable they were in the male estate. Clearly a violent male person presents a risk to women in an enclosed environment, that is an obvious no-brainer to me, long hair and implants or not. So, third spaces, designated vulnerable prisoner units etc seems the obvious answer, right?

Until, the answer came back from the trans rights activists - no, we must be housed in with women in the female estate, in order to validate our identities. Then it clicks. When offered an option that solves the concerns raised - safety of the transwoman in the male prison estate - separate accommodation - it’s apparently not acceptable, because ‘validation’. Well the safety and well-being of female prisoners should not be up for compromise to ‘validate’ anybody.

This case helped me understand the meaninglessness of the phrase ‘as a woman’, because as it was used about Tara it meant ‘looking like a pornified stereotype of a woman’ - it was all male gaze stuff, it wasn’t anything to do with what a woman actually is.

Anyway this has probably run it’s course now, the OP isn’t answering many questions, rather responding to posts with vaguely related waffle but not actually addressing the points raised. It has been certainly been enlightening, and you have clarified a few things for me OP, probably not in the way you intended though, sadly.

My last thing to say is, OP, despite the contempt you have shown to us, and how offensive you have been (calling us ridiculous for needing a female healthcare professional for intimate procedures was a particular highlight), I still feel a huge amount of sympathy for you, I wish you well. I don’t hate you, or want to deny you any right that someone born with the same body as you also has. I disagree with most of your views on the nature of sex and gender, and the FWR door is always open should you wish to read, listen and learn more about why that is. Go well, as they say.

memaymamo · 07/01/2020 05:22

A genuine question for OP that I've not seen addressed. Do you see parallels between trans people and people who long to have a leg or arm removed? I am not sure of the proper name for this but it's where you believe you really were not meant to have that leg and you desperately want it gone, and long for a doctor to amputate it.

I would consider the above to be a serious mental illness and should be treated as such rather than let them amputate. But is that different from being trans?

pegasus02 · 07/01/2020 06:33

OP @Sideris

I've read your answers and think they are articulate, clear and helpful. It's been educational for me. Thank you for taking the time to do this.

I've always been 100% supportive of trans people's rights, and have dabbled on the 'feminism' board here before (under a different user name) to try to engage with posters and understand their perspective. I was polite, but found myself hammered down with aggressive and patronising post after post, a bit like here. There was a lot of misguided fear around attacks from trans women in women's spaces, based on ropey stats without a source. There was an inability to see the other side of the argument, and there was an assumed virtuosity as it's in the name of 'feminism'. I concluded it was an echo chamber and there's no point engaging further in this forum.

I hope you've found this a positive experience. All the very best.

OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg · 07/01/2020 06:58

There was a lot of misguided fear around attacks from trans women in women's spaces, based on ropey stats without a source.

For the 857,488th time...it is not transwomen that we are afraid of. It is the fact that self-ID opens the door (literally) to any man to get close to potential victims by merely declaring themselves to identify as women, whether they are trans or not. The stats there in black & white (posted earlier on this thread) demonstrate that attacks on women and girls increase when single sex facilities are made mixed sex.

When there is literally no effort involved beyond saying “I identify as a woman and I wish to use female spaces”, you’d have to be spectacularly naive to think that malevolent men will not use this to their advantage, given the efforts that some will go to elsewhere in order to find victims to abuse.

WhatWozZat · 07/01/2020 07:27

Hello Sideris, thank you for answering these questions., it's really interesting. You appear to have missed my questions from page 4. I would be grateful if you could answer them? They were:

Are you able to explain what the difference is between a man and a woman?

And why does it matter that the difference is acknowledged?

FamilyOfAliens · 07/01/2020 07:37

That's pretty grim. Do you know how many people are in prison for shoplifting, or for not paying their TV licence? I don't think that either of these offences means they should get raped or savagely beaten, personally. I don't think any offence does, tbh. Do you? Or have I misunderstood you?

You’ve misunderstood me. But then you know that, don’t you, @KnowBetterDoBetter?

callmedavid · 07/01/2020 07:50

knowsbetter we don't know what percentage of people who identify today as trans would b happy with third spaces.

OP how about you ?

What we do know is that a lot of very vocal and aggressive influencers do not want third spaces. People pushing self ID which include labour, the greens and Lib Dem's all actively support The idea that transwomen must 100% be treated as women in all circumstance no debate.

Shelby2010 · 07/01/2020 07:56

@KnowBetterDoBetter
You spoke about a trans man friend who you feel should be allowed to go to a men’s prison because they had ‘passed’ for years. Do you honestly think they would be safe there? I suppose it might depend on whether they had had bottom surgery as to whether they could blend in. Certainly any transman who still had female genitalia (like the OP) must be incredibly vulnerable to sexual assault locked up with male prisoners. It wouldn’t be a question of whether they deserved to be there, just their own safety.

My question to the OP which got missed was regarding the increased risk of violence that trans men face. And the reasons for that. Which presumably is at least partly a factor of them spending time in male-only spaces.

JacquesHammer · 07/01/2020 08:00

There are a lot of feminists on MN who support trans people (I'm one) and it makes me sad that MN in general is such a trans-unfriendly place

I’m sorry you see being pro-women (and biology) as not supporting transpeople.

I support transpeople fully to be who they want in society without persecution. I do not support vulnerable women being forced to give up single sex space, I do not support biological women being put to the back of the queue in sport and I don’t support people trying to re-write biology.

callmedavid · 07/01/2020 08:03

Would you really want your transgender man friend to go with o a male prison? No concern for them at all?

www.theguardian.com/society/2015/dec/08/rules-transgender-prisoners-male-female-jails-justice-review

I recall ( memory only) the rules were changed after the deaths of those transmen in the male prisons.

Sideris · 07/01/2020 08:28

*Would you really want your transgender man friend to go with o a male prison? No concern for them at all?

www.theguardian.com/society/2015/dec/08/rules-transgender-prisoners-male-female-jails-justice-review

I recall ( memory only) the rules were changed after the deaths of those transmen in the male prisons.*

All of those cases involve trans women being sent to men's prisons. Further searching for any case of a trans man dying in a male prison gave me a lot more trans women dying in male prisons, and one case of a trans man being assaulted, ridiculed and sexually abused in a woman's prison.

www.inquirer.com/news/transgender-pepperspray-genital-searches-philadelphia-jails-20191023.html?outputType=amp

It's behaviour like this that makes me very desperate not to want to be in women's prison (outside the abuse I may face from other inmates), and especially not want to have a 'transgender' prison. A prison full of inmates that could hurt each other if staff decides it'd be funny to withhold hormone treatment for some of us? Invasive searches, sexual harassment, sexual abuse, likely conversion attempts as 'if you weren't [trans] you could just go join men's/women's prison'? No thank you.

OP posts:
PityParty4one · 07/01/2020 08:38

A prison full of inmates that could hurt each other if staff decides it'd be funny to withhold hormone treatment for some of us?

Sorry can you explain this?
How/why would staff be able to withhold medication and why would that mean inmates would hurt each other?

popehilarious · 07/01/2020 08:45

Surely that would be going against prison risk assessments, so would be down to the prison being run correctly, not down to the existence of trans people in a third space?

You know, just as you explained Karen White sexually assaulting female inmates in a women's prison wasn't down to the existence of a trans person in the prison but due to poor application of the particular prison's risk assessment.

No thank you.

PencilsInSpace · 07/01/2020 08:49

I think you're confused about terminology callmedavid.

A 'transman' is a female person who identifies as a man. The people in that article are 'transwomen' - male people who identify as women.

Vicky Thompson was being held in a vulnerable prisoner's wing and was withdrawing from alcohol and drugs. She told staff she did not want to be transferred to the women's estate.

Joanne Latham was so dangerous that even if she had had a GRC and even under the 2016 prison rules she would have been housed in the male estate. They needed five prison officers present when unlocking her cell. The female estate is simply not set up to manage such violent prisoners. A female prisoner with that level of risk would also have been housed in the male estate.

The rules were changed in 2016 and have since been changed again, in light of what happened with Karen White.

Winesalot · 07/01/2020 08:50

Invasive searches, sexual harassment, sexual abuse, likely conversion attempts

Surely if it was a trans segregated prison, the guards and staff would be under the exact same requirements as any other prison in UK ? Why do you believe this would this be any different here in the UK system?

And why would any trans person need to fear another. You are telling women that there is absolutely no need to fear trans woman in women only spaces Your implication seemed to me (or I misunderstood) that trans women do not follow the male violence (sexual or not) pattern of the general male population.

Or is it just if a trans persons hormones are interrupted ‘they could hurt each other’? Only then?

Sideris · 07/01/2020 08:51

Sorry can you explain this?
How/why would staff be able to withhold medication and why would that mean inmates would hurt each other?

Because people can be cruel and because some of us are fearful what would happen without. I doubt I's steal someone's testosterone but as someone who's mental health was shite without it and who produces little hormones on his own, meaning I'd be virtually without EITHER set of hormones, I'd be terrified if I had a 6 month detention with no testosterone for 5 of them because I refused to accept abuse.

OP posts:
PityParty4one · 07/01/2020 09:00

Sidres

I am assuming you are not UK based but surely any prison in a western country has to abide by laws especially around medical care?
I would think a trans prison would actually be more sympathetic to the complex needs of their prisoners surrounding medication.

I dont believe that they are your only concerns regarding a trans only prison as let's face it you have zero evidence to base any of them on.

PityParty4one · 07/01/2020 09:06

I'd be virtually without EITHER set of hormones

Your body naturally produces both unless your reproductive organs have been removed and even then the adrenal glands do produce a small amount.
Then again menopausal women manage in prison so I cannot see why a trans person couldn't but then as it is a medical requirement they would not have to as the prison has a duty of care.

Winesalot · 07/01/2020 09:08

PityParty

OP has had fully hysterectomy if I remember correctly.

furrytoebean · 07/01/2020 09:09

OP Why do think that abuse is more likely to happen in a women's or trans facility than a male estate?

And how come you think it's up to the prison service to manage the risk of males in the female estate and that it's a problem with the facility that can be fixed even when problems have already arisen. But you don't think the same when the risk is to trans people.
Can you not see the double standard?