My children were removed by Social Services. AMA

[OpiesOldLady]

Obviously nothing that could identify us but I'll be as open and as honest as i can be.

You may not have done this thread for a pat in the back but I think you deserve one. When all was going to shit you put yourself children 1st and realised that you weren’t meeting their needs.

I don’t ha e any questions but just wanted to wish you all well for the future.

Wow OP! I just wanted to echo other posters who have said that it very much sounds like you are someone who puts their children before themselves

Passthecherrycoke

But would it be long term removal? Wouldn’t it be better to offer support to such mothers?

Is happily pay my taxes for a mother who has disability and is a single parent to have a cleaner, get some mental health support, get some respite foster or paid carer for her DC while they stay together. I’m sure this amounts for much less money that is paid already for 4 kids fostered separately and probably requiring much more emotional and mental support now than they would’ve.

I’m getting emotional because OPs story could’ve been anyone. I think she sounds like a great mum overwhelmed by circumstances beyond her control.

Op.. wasn’t there an option for you to give them up to someone you know ?? Like your the parents of your late DH ( for the first 2 DC at least)? And wasnt there a possibility to put the child with physical needs in a residential instead of taking the rest as well?

The youngest two who were abused... my Lord that sound so horrifying. They seem so young to have been entrusted with a step son unsupervised. Was that the real issue?? Or were they left with their dad who offloaded onto his son?

I’m so sorry I’m asking too many questions because I have horrible trust issues with SS after hearing some horror stories but I’ve been wanting to be a foster carer for a while and part of me see the good they’re doing.. I’m just unsure how to resolve both sides of the coin and figure it out.

I think this thread will help many mothers who want to come back from this but the normality in your voice also makes it scary for all of us who wanted to assume that this would never happen to us. Because you sound so incredibly strong but these circumstances to me sound incredibly overwhelming for you.

Yes the kids might be having their needs better met but I wish you didn’t have to suffer through it..

Isn’t there a way for the parent to have their child taken into care without them losing a great deal involvement in their kids lives?? What’s the logic behind handing over children to another family unless the parent was direct cause of abuse??

I think people are asking about housework because for many it’s a genuine concern that they are judged harshly on the tidiness of the house. In OPs case she was not in fit state to stay on top on lots of things in the house. Not because the plates weren’t washed up within half a hour of a meal. I think that’s why the questions?

“But would it be long term removal? Wouldn’t it be better to offer support to such mothers?”

I’m sorry do you mean the posts about Physical or learning disabled parents?

I guess We’re talking about parents who aren’t capable of caring for their children. Sadly. Despite all the help offered, some people just can’t do it.

Cleaners don’t help much- how useful is a cleaner for a few hours a week when, say in the OPs case, you have the washing of 4 young children building up- clean, dirty, crumbled, not put away, not hung up, and she isn’t physically able to deal with it? You can’t pay someone to run up and down the stairs daily with loads of washing for her.

And don’t forget, that was only one strand of many reasons why the children where removed. Add another 10 strands (many more serious Like the sexual abuse) and you can’t see why people just can’t cope. There isn’t always an easy way out.

Cleaners don’t help much- how useful is a cleaner for a few hours a week when, say in the OPs case, you have the washing of 4 young children building up- clean, dirty, crumbled, not put away, not hung up, and she isn’t physically able to deal with it? You can’t pay someone to run up and down the stairs daily with loads of washing for her.

still unsure how crumbled and piling laundry are that risky on a child, which I insist could easily be dealt with by a cleaner (ironing, folding and hanging are certainly jobs you can ask for). While she might not deserve the title of domestic goddess but certainly does not make her a neglectful parent..

Which basic need of a child is it that she is neglecting here ?!

Some people wash only twice a week or once! It can work!

You’re glossing over the fact OP has said over and over that the house work was only part of the reason her children were removed. It’s honestly not worth focusing on and trying to find imaginary solutions to

No, there wasn't an option for the children to go to family, mainly because of their complex therapy needs.

As for the stepson abuse... it happened in their bedroom, they weren't just dumped on anyone. It never occurred to me that stepson would be an abuser.

Privatefosterer - I have four kids and a 10kg machine. I have to wash every day. Loading, folding, hanging out to dry, putting on hangers, carrying up to bedrooms and sorting it again. I timed myself once and just putting it on the line takes 15 minutes. Add bad back etc and it’s easy to drawn in it. Plus OP said beds weren’t always clean. That’s the first thing SS look at as it’s a basic need. Again hard with back pains. You would need a cleaner coming twice a day to just keep on top of washing, I have considered it myself at times.

What do ss think about the younger three coming home
Are you worried that things will come crashing down again

Re stepson - of course it wouldn't occur to you, or anyone else, OP. Horrible shock for you. And so easy to blame yourself unfairly.

Welltroddenpath

With all due respect, you might need a cleaner coming twice a day to be a domestic goddess but twice a week to meet basic requirements.

I come from a family of four and daily washing wasn’t a thing. OP doesn’t need to put anything on the line because there is a tumble dryer which sorts that out for her.. happy for my taxes to buy her a tumble dryer and associated electric costs than her kids be taken away. she could sit and fold or pile it up dry somewhere and someone helps out. Or even if god forbid it stays for a whole week, piled up clean and dry... i wouldn’t call that neglectful parenting as that poses no risk on the children aside from looking unsightly.

Unless the laundry was dry and moulding on her kids beds I still don’t see the issue.

As for her kids bedsheets.. unless they’re eating on the bed and pooing, peeing and vomiting on there... I think sheets changed twice a month is actually enough.

It’s not that I think we shouldn’t focus on “only” this. I just think this is a non issue and an unfair way to judge parenting.

I’m just curious to know the standards by which social services judge a parent as unfit to cope..

Sometimes having so much Strain om a parent causes more damage to the family than help.

I’m being devils advocate here.

But what would you do about her nervous breakdown privatefosterer?

@Mankyfourthtoe - the younger three coming home is really not an option just now. In the future, perhaps, but i really don't know. Of course I'd love them to, but we'll see.

Yes, I'm desperately worried that things will come crashing down again. However, there are so many things that are different this time. I'm different. I have so much support that i didn't before - now my support network is fantastic. And that's because i have been able to ask for help when i need it. I can say that I'm struggling or i need help with something. I have an amazing therapist who is guiding me through this, and a loving family who tell me that I've got this. I just have to believe in myself.

Passthecherrycoke

More support. What would you suggest is done if god forbid a parent was human enough to have a nervous breakdown after going through so much hell at once ?

You can’t always solve problems by throwing money at them. OP has said that her children being removed was for the best. Why are you so insistent that things could’ve been different with more help?

For the love of Pete, it wasn't the washing that got 4 kids taken into care.

OP was presumably hospitalised with depression/psychosis/both. DC had no functioning father(s). No family wanted the DCs. There was some trouble with Child Services and the police about sexual abuse, about which judges and social workers have no choice except to take the children away. Foster care was the only option in law.

Also the children seem to have complex needs which would mean they take a lot more care than your average children

I have two kids with Sen, both get dla so disabled. I have had SS in my house due to disability respite requests. A child going into care is 200-250k pa per child. I know that and I’m not passing judgment in either direction. Clean beds is just a SS criteria. I don’t make the rules. It just is. If your child has SEN and a disability and spills food over themselves daily it gets frowned on at school. Again I don’t make that call, it’s just a fact. JUst sending one child in with food on isn’t a option a small only one child has to trigger a neglected claim. Going into school with dirty clothes daily would trigger neglect suspicions so I was hoping every day. Either that or I wash six times over the weekend

Thing is, families are not all uniform. Your mum didn’t wash daily, I have to. It takes me hours. I have a socail worker in my house every other month. It’s not always simple for one person as it is for the next.

Private I know you have good intentions and can see how upset you are but you, a poster on the internet, don't know better than the many professionals in this case. You ask where the abuse was- the OP stated that the main reason was neglect. There aren't any easy solutions like the simple ones you're suggesting. It's actually insulting to the OP that if she'd have just got a cleaner etc, then things would be different. It's much more complex.

@Privatefosterer do you think you are helping the OP by belittling her struggles and trying to reframe them as laundry issues, and insisting there must have been something that could have been done differently to have a different outcome?

She's been really reflective and accountable on this thread and it reflects very well on her. It also bodes well for her future care of the children. Some parents just can't pull it together no matter how much support is given! Can't you grasp that?
I'm a social worker and I honestly have sleepless nights and agonise about care proceedings, we all do! I have shed tears for mums who have lost their children when I have recommended they are permanently removed because I have tried so bloody hard to get them where they need to be, and they just can't, and the children are suffering.

Your contributions on this thread seem remarkably tone deaf. Try to be more sensitive, please.

Support in the home is all very well, but you also need the parent(s) to be healthy enough to live at home. SS won't provide support unless the parent is resident.

To be honest, a live-in housekeeper and nanny for 6 weeks or so while Mum is seriously ill in hospital would be a lot more straightforward than fostering.

But no one gets it, also because by law to keep their DCs a parent also has to have some parenting capacity, which OP didn't. In other cases, CS might decide the parent is a danger to the DCs and just want them moved.

And you can't have families of parentless children living on their own with just a carer - which a lot of children would like, and often ask judges for.

If a family's got money, however, they can often get round SS concern by paying for 24-hr childcare while the parents do their own thing. But that only works as long as there are no additional problems - eg DV or abuse, which there were in this case.

Welltroddenpath

I was never sent home to school with food on my clothes. I had enough clothes so that I could pile up the laundry and it be washed twice weekly. Or if it’s still clean, often the case, then once weekly. And if god forbid there was a spill in between on the school uniform there was the quick hand wash of that spot which takes 2 mins.

And again, bedsheets don’t easily get dirty without kids eating on the bed or actually pooping and peeing. So twice a month is fine. More than that is excellent. But not a requirement.

Anyway Op, I hope you don’t overwhelm yourself thinking that you’re a bad parent. Theres a lot of pp just convincing themselves that they’re far from your case by listing their credentials but when you truly get to see we are all humans making mistakes.

I hope you manage to get all the help you need to have your kids back. You deserve as much support as you can get. Especially if you have kids with complex needs and a disability yourself.

Sniffing for gory details of the neglect @Privatefosterer?

Supersimkin2

No. Sniffing for the details of how social services and the legal system can do a better job at supporting struggling parents because a lot more families can benefit that way.