I'm a traveller- AMA

[Pinkyyy]

I was actually asked on another post to start this thread, I've been debating the idea for a while but usually decide not to because I've seen threads like this turn sour before. Hopefully I can avoid that and actually provide information and educate people on a way of life they may well know very little about.

I invite you to ask any questions you may have, and I will do my best to answer them all honestly. I ask that you don't bother to comment if you're going to bombard me with racism and ignorance. If you'd like to question a common stereotype, by all means go ahead but I will not respond to those who are simply here to be hateful. I also hope you'll respect that I don't like to share too much of my personal details on here, so I'm aiming more to speak about travellers as a a whole and not so much about me personally.

So.... AMA

Hi OP, thank you for a very interesting thread!

Please may I ask a question about the "class" system you have mentioned a few times? Is there a name for the classes and do people stick within the borders of their class? Is it like the working class, middle class and upper class thing?

Also, please can I just clarify something you've said a couple of times? You've said that it is very uncommon for people to live by the side of the road these days. Do you mean it's very rare for people of your particular class? In my county it is very common for non blocked off lay-bys on the A-roads to become campsites for three or four months or so.

Finally, my DH used to play darts at the legion club with the grandfather of a local traveller family. When I first met him the first thing he did was bark "you, girl, who's your family?" at me. Is that common? Wanting to know family ties? His wife was lovely and when she passed away the road was lined for miles by mourners.

Very enlightening thread.

I used to teach at a university in the NW and every year would have a couple of students who were of traveller/gypsy background, English and Irish. All women, though - although I am aware that I only know what students told me, so there were quite possibly more/men too.

Many still keep in vague touch, and several have gone on to qualify and work in social work. There's a couple who are with probation, several in various capacities with the prison service, and one solicitor. Plenty also work in charities.

It's always a shame when people are denied access to further education, through societal norms, but as PP have pointed out a) the situation for traveller women has transformed incredibly over the last ten years, and b) the situation is very similar, in terms of attitudes to education university, with working class people in families where education isn't linked with advancement (which was the situation for my parents and grandparents)

Rousette

I think we are posting at cross purposes
The family I mentioned aren't travellers, I was saying that this happens in all communities.
It's awful where we live, such a lack of aspiration.
I do agree that traditional Romany families years ago, were typically like this.
My own family have said if I'd have been raised with them I wouldn't have had the opportunities I have had, and my dd most certainly wouldn't have done.
In terms of education though, there would have been very little difference. I left school with nothing, due to learning difficulties and a bad system, like many did in the early 80's.
I must say though, I've never met a traveller who has said they feel they have missed out on anything. The women are happy, no more dv than in other communities. In fact I found the men respected the women, far more equality in their roles.

Yes, RRoots I realised after I posted what you meant! That'll teach me for not reading it properly

I am a great one for education because I went to a shit school and left at 15 with barely anything to my name. So I have lived through my DCs somewhat (I know you're not meant to do that but I can't help it!) and they've been all the way through to Uni (2 have) and it has opened a lot of doors for them and the world's their lobster . I just couldn't imagine not encouraging that if your child is bright enough. How can cleaning and polishing every day compare? Look at how much reading and/or books open a persons eyes. If your literacy skills are poor, that's a huge thing you're missing out on.

I don't mean to sound rude. I just don't get it. I do apologise Pinkyy if this is coming out wrong but I don't understand how parents would choose not to grab at every bit of education possible for their kids. It's not just maths english and all the boring bits.... if you listen to a group of older teens debate it's fascinating. Education gives a young person a perspective of how to look at life, it can spark a thirst for knowledge and helps them build opinions and views on the world around them, instead of being cloistered in a small community.

In developing countries, millions of children are denied an education and here it is on a plate for everyone but there's a community who choose not to take it.

I suppose it's a subject close to my heart as I never really had much of a formal education so I really really didn't want that for my kids.

Sorry to bang on about it

@RomanyRoots thank you for that link! I have looked a few times into my family tree but it's very hard as a lot has not been recorded. There is lots of info on my family name there which is really interesting!

Rousette

I was very interested in this and have spoken to my family at great length.
Sometimes I visit and it's like a question and answer session

I'm not saying this is right but they don't feel as though they have missed out, and I suppose those who do, will go to Uni later, as did I and others who for whatever reason were denied an education.
The young women I know feel their identity comes from providing for their children, sometimes monetary but other times by teaching them travelling ways. If they can keep their family happy, their husbands happy and a clean house, they feel like they are succeeding. Spending time on themselves is important and they'll always look their best. Showing riches is another way of identifying success. Young mums have designer gear for their babies and you can see them on fb, next to the gleaming china.
One woman I know scrubs the settee daily. I couldn't be that house proud, it must take ages.

Rousette Mum, is that you?!

I'm with you - I really don't get it, but it's very visible across communities, as Rom has said. The immense sacrifices some parents in the developing world make to ensure their children can receive an education is humbling - and makes it so frustrating that children in this country have opportunities for education those families couldn't even dream of, no parental sacrifice required... But I think Romany is right - lack of educational aspiration isn't limited to Travellers

Pinkyyy and Rom - is there any sort of taboo for women (or men, for that matter) working for someone else? I have a very good friend of Indian origin, and it caused some drama in her extended family when she stopped working for her husband and took on a job elsewhere: for her caste or sub caste, there was a huge taboo about not working for yourself.

Wondered whether there is anything similar for your community, (especially in light of PP's comments over things in Traveller tradition that correlate with Hindu practice)

I suppose RRoots, it's just not knowing any different. And I do get that it's another way of life. And of course, anyone can take a pride in anything, and keeping your children happy and a clean house is such a good thing. But there's a whole world out there isn't there, that they don't dream of .. because they know no different.

But of course, everyone to their own!

What’s the deal with all the “bling” and over the top outfits on babies?
I come from an area of the U.K. with a large traveller community, and grew up in a town with a very big, permanent site. A lot of the kids went to my school - many actually staying on to finish year 11. Since we’ve all grown up, a lot of them have got married and had DCs.
I see pictures of tiny newborns in enormous, pouffy dresses, huge bows on their heads, ruffled satin blankets stuffed into prams until they are fit to burst, gold earrings/necklaces/bracelets on both baby boys and girls, and huge dummies bedazzled with diamanté’s I can’t help but get my judgy pants on and think “that is so dangerous”.
Is it a common thing to dress babies up in these potentially dangerous outfits/accessories? Or is it just something that the girls I know do!?

UtterlyDesperate I'm no doubt old enough to be!

Belladonna

I read how hard it was pre records. However, a good tip if you can find out their travelling route and look at Parish records you'll often find several children all baptised at the same time.
They also had favourite spots to go to die, where a farmer would allow the vardo to be burned with all the possessions. This could have tied in with a census.
Also, criminal records, you'll find a few there, and the poor sods who were transported for very small crimes.

Oh I missed that post then pinkyy, I just saw the one where you said you spoke English but with some words peppered in.

Rousette

My dd is a gifted musician and attends a specialist music school, paid for by the taxpayer. It's a huge opportunity she wouldn't have as a traveller, because it would just be unheard of.
Had I been raised in my Romany family, she would have missed out. There is absolutely no denying this.
I can't speak for other families as mine might be different to some.

I will never forget when my DH and I got together and his family would speak in traveller and id just sit there dumb struck like WTF are they going on about. 😂 Now I confuse people when I accidentally use some of the words outside of the family conversations....

Have you ever welcome a gorger into your family? Were they happy to take on the traveller life style? X

How wonderful for your DD RRoots, what a fantastic opportunity. You must be bursting with pride. One of mine is fluent in two other languages, has worked in Brazil and Madrid, one other has worked in Taiwan but I have to say we are just an ordinary family, neither me or DH went to Uni, and kids went to State school which shows that anything is possible

Rousette
Thank you, she's thriving, but I miss her terribly, she weekly boards, but often stays at the weekend if there's something good arranged. This weekend it's DofE, she loves this.
I don't think she'll ever be back home to live, after school she'll be off to conservatoire and then searching for Opera work.
I must add, that a lot of children in gorger communities wouldn't have the opportunity either, not just travellers.

Yes of course. Your DD is grabbing life's opportunities, quite rightly so.

HJWT

This is exactly the welcoming given to gorger women in my family.
My poor Uncles wife was never good enough for my granny apparently.
She used to say things all the time to make her feel an outsider.
This was before my time of knowing the family, but I understand the old traditionalists are like this.
Some in mine are still a bit narrow in their thinking and expect their children to marry in a travelling family.
I also have 2 first cousins once removed (for anyone not knowing my uncles/Aunts children, who are married, so they are first cousins. It wan't encouraged, they just fell in love. They have children and thankfully they are all well and good.

Sorry just trying to catch up

@LadyFlumpalot thank you! Yes I'd say there was definitely an upper, middle and lower class although the lines are quite blurred and people don't always mix exclusively within their own class. It's very common to ask who a person's family are, especially by older people as they probably knew your parents/grandparents, though the way he asked you sounds rude to me.

@Hefzi I'm glad you are able to reiterate what I said about the changes, especially with regards to education, and you are exactly right in what you said. It's brilliant to hear that those women have found good careers

@Roussette the way I look at it, the education system is there for anyone in the UK to take advantage of, and any traveller who wants to do so is more than welcome. There isn't a ban on education, it's just that there is more to life in our community. And it doesn't consist purely of cleaning and polishing

@UtterlyDesperate it's frowned upon for men to work for someone else. They pride themselves in being self sufficient and being able to provide for their family without needing to rely on anyone else. A traveller would call another man who worked for someone else a 'workman' and this would be a negative comment

@MyBreadIsEggy people like to display their wealth and this extends to showing that they can buy the best for their children. I wouldn't ever put anything I seemed to be unsafe on my DC, but they too wear designer clothes and diamond earrings right from being a baby

@HJWT members of my non-immediate family have married gorgers and I have welcomed them, and treated them the same as I would any other family member

@BlancheM I think it was quite early on in the thread. It's not an entire language but there are hundreds of words. There are other words for non-travellers as well as gorger, another very common one is 'collier'

Thanks for explaining that to me, Pinkyyy- that makes perfect sense

@UtterlyDesperate no problem at all!

@NottonightJosepheen you're making some extremely big reaches. Where was the statistic released about the suicide rate being 7x higher? I don't believe that for a second.