I'm a radical unschooler AMA

[OutOfControlSpirals]

I'm a radical unschooling mum, which basically means I've taken the principals of unschooling, where a child is free to learn what they want, when they want, and applied it to every aspect of our lives. So my children have the same freedoms that I do when it comes to eating/sleeping/learning etc.

Tabatha with regard to your comment a few pages back about how OP got her education - I learnt to read at home aged 3, absolutely hated the school environment and didn't get many qualifications there, left at 16, and then went back into education to get qualifications as an adult. I now have an MA in Education.

Does that make me better qualified or suited to unschool than someone with the same qualifications who got them more 'conventionally' through the GCSE->A-Level->University at 18 route?

I've changed my mind.

There is - and this hadn't occurred to me - the very real possibility that the OP's wall displays are backed with the wrong shade of blue!

duckingmel I’ve just seen your post. I have been in those situations. I went through the schooling system and have qualifications. That I don’t need or use and school was awful for me. My brother was a school refuser and after leaving with no qualifications worked his way up and is now a civil engineer, making lots of money, I have a friend with autism who was homeschool, he makes over 100k a year despite no qualifications, he runs his own business.
Education is vital.
Schools are amazing for some children.
Unschooling is amazing for some children.

Fem I don't think you need to be qualified to unschool at all do you? Isn't that the whole point? Let the kids find their way and don't crush them with actual teaching?
I would say though that your experience of school was yours alone. It doesn't mean that your child would have the same experience and it certainly doesn't give you, or anyone, the right to deprive your child of the opportunity to see for themselves.

Unschooling is amazing for some children

But again, other than anecdotal evidence, do you have data to back that up? And actually, do you mean homeschooling or unschooling?

For the exam focused amongst you. I am very familiar with the schemes of work, and exam specifications, for final assessment at KS4 in all subjects. I have no doubt whatsoever that I could, with my general education (to BA Eng. lit), plus the wealth of resources available, especially from exam boards, tutor an NT child to a 4+ grade in any subject within two or three years.

Would they be getting the best education possible, though?

I don't think so...

Green: I agree with you. Just saying that worrying about education and qualifications, as well as future income levels is wise and necessary for most (without wealth behind them). For DS, it's a mixed approach, with school featuring heavily, as it necessitates socialisation and structure I could not provide on nearly the same scale. I believe it will give him the tools (together with therapeutic interventions and informed parenting) the best chance at the, aforementioned, education and good income.

So nothing should ever change without data backing it up?

I think you'll find the prisons to be filled with people like that, and every single one of them would have spent time in the school system. I sincerely doubt you'd find home educated people in there

Based on my experience working with prisoners on a daily basis, this is incorrect. Many prisoners have extremely limited experience of schooling, having been removed for their parents' convenience at an early age, due to unmanageable behaviour, or due to generally chaotic childhoods meaning they never made it to school (or were registered as existing) to begin with. I have met a large number of "home educated" prisoners. The difference of course being that their parents were not naice middle class people but people for whom not having to bother with the school run and essentially letting their kids roam free was convenient. I've only met one or two "conventionally" home-educated prisoners, who had exams and followed a curriculum etc.

My question is if your kids' education is based solely on their interests, how do you avoid glaring gaps in their knowledge? For example, I never at any stage showed an interest in European history. For some reason I'd have happily learned about the American Civil War all day long but Europe left me cold. I'm still bloody glad someone made me learn about the holocaust - not because I personally found it interesting, but because it's culturally important in understanding our society. How do you make sure these basics are covered for all your kids? What would you do if your kids were really uninterested in an "important" topic?

I'm exam focussed in the sense that rightly or wrongly you'll struggle with many things without maths or English GCSE. I went to university with someone who was home schooled. She didn't want to do exams as a teenager. She started her degree aged 23 when she'd finally caught up. She was really resentful that her parents didn't force her to do them.

duckingmel I don’t have any problems with schools, it just really upsets me that tabatha thinks it’s the only way to get an education and qualifications

Thank you for answering @Greenyogagirl :)

I think I just find the idea of giving young children autonomy over their choices a bit of an oxymoron - because it will never happen. Children are too young to know what's best for them - which is why they're unable to make their own medical decisions, for example.

So the concept (to me) of allowing your small child to dictate what they eat and where they go and when is a bit alien. Because when those choices are dangerous you need to step in anyway and protect them. Allowing them to choose their own bedtime might not be dangerous but allowing them (long-term) to choose their own diet or oral hygiene technique or whatever can potentially have devastating lifelong consequences.

So at some point you either have to step in and go against your philosophy of letting them choose or actively choose to neglect your child because you believe they have the right to make their own choices.

It just doesn't sit right with me.

I’m still worried about the amount of salt in 6 months worth of noodles

That's true, Tabatha. What I do think is that the default position for parents is usually to send their children to school. Some home educate from the start, obviously, but the majority don't. Some take their children out later if school doesn't suit them, others (like my parents) don't, even if it ends up damaging their mental health and hindering their education.

I'd just turn that about and say that the default is to stay at home, but if my child wanted to try going to school, I'd let them, and if they liked it and got on well there, great! Children are all different. Some do really like school. Others have a terrible time. I've worked in a primary school and seen that for myself - I used to be very anti-school because of my own experience, but I've seen that for some children, it's definitely the best option. Not everyone is like me - but I'm very far from being unique in my experience, either.

Your last sentence is a bit judgemental, though - it could equally be said that someone shouldn't 'deprive' their children of the opportunity to see if they like homeschooling or unschooling better than the school system.

you'll struggle with many things without maths or English GCSE

More accurately, you'll struggle with many things without functional literacy and numeracy. Once you have those, if you need to tick the exam box (e.g. in order to train as a teacher), it's achievable. Getting the magic 4+ in maths and English, on the other hand, means little if it's at your 16th attempt and the utter detriment of your self-esteem.

Good for you OP, I think it sounds a great way of life for you, your husband and children, thanks for very interesting insight into how this works for you all, to me it’s admirable

adaline it’s a strange one and I think a lot of it is in line with parents who respect their children (regardless of how they’re educated) I think some use it as an excuse to not parent at all, I think when done properly it’s bloody hard work.

FeminaSum you make a good point. Withdrawing your child from education needs to be a proactive choice if it's to work. The default is the safest for society generally, despite the many negatives!

@caoraich surely everyone has gaps in their knowledge? I’m not even sure we did the holocaust at my school although I definitely read Anne Franks diary at some point (but I think I just did that on my own initiative). It’s not like everyone comes cookie cutter out of school knowing exactly the same things (and if they did that wouldn’t reflect too wonderfully on school really).

I don’t think it’s really possible to escape learning about the holocaust without significantly more restriction than just not going to school. Maybe with no tv, no print media, no radio and no internet. There’s probably parents who do try and restrict their kids knowledge of the world that much but that’s really not “homeschooling” or unschooling.

Green: I think this is polarising, because of the inherent emotional tone of "are you doing the best you can as a mother?" and most of us feel guilty at some level. So when some people cry "outsourcing parenting to failing, terrible schools" it very understandably causes defensive reactions. Most schools are good enough for most children (IMO), some excellent (DS's - thank god) and some are terrible. Same with teachers. There are problems with the school system and concentration on exams and results, vs. real, multifaceted engaging education, but it's possible to change. Tradition is hard to shift, but I believe it's possible.

Not all of us are natural home educators and I would struggle mentally. However, I know I might have to do it to some extent in secondary. I hope to progress in my career so I can employ tutors at that point.

tabatha a child can have an education at home or school be that unschooling, worldschooling, homeschooling or boarding, private, Steiner or mainstream.

Sorry OP but I couldn't get past the comment about how not all mums have the time to "sit with their child for 40 mins to work through their feelings."

Had I all the time in the world, I wouldn't sit with my 4 year old for 40 mins to work through his feelings every time he was frustrated about something. I absolutely do talk to him about emotion and would never leave him upset, but he also has to learn a bit of resilience. He needs to differentiate between different kinds of upset feelings and their differing severity. I'm not going to sit with him and discuss eg 'I wanted to walk through the door first but you got there before me' for extended periods of time.

duckingmel I’ve said things on this thread out of frustration for the same reasons of guilt. It’s petty but tabatha criticises my choices and I criticise hers. Both probably out of guilt if if we’re doing the best we can.

I believe most of us are, green! It's hard, this parenting thing, isn't it... We all want what's best for our children, but come from different places.

thanks for very interesting insight into how this works for you all

I think we could have had a very interesting insight if the OP had chosen to answer more than an handful of questions. “Ask me anything” my arse