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AMA

I'm a radical unschooler AMA

999 replies

OutOfControlSpirals · 26/07/2018 15:22

I'm a radical unschooling mum, which basically means I've taken the principals of unschooling, where a child is free to learn what they want, when they want, and applied it to every aspect of our lives. So my children have the same freedoms that I do when it comes to eating/sleeping/learning etc.

OP posts:
Tabathatwitchett · 29/07/2018 14:14

given the state of my local schools, our council would be better spending it's limited time and money sorting out the education provided there, at the tax payers expense, than trying to force standards higher than those met by said schools on home educators

So we throw home educated children to the wolves then? Do they matter less than state educated ones?

Tabathatwitchett · 29/07/2018 14:15

I can see many potential harms and I think they are worth risking in order to allow people the freedom to live according to their own cultural and community

Wow. Thank God my children being raised to value diversity and to reflect on their own cultural choices. Your words there are very dangerous to a cohesive and inclusive society.

HollyGibney · 29/07/2018 14:20

So we throw home educated children to the wolves then? Do they matter less than state educated ones?

Stop being emotive. That's not what was said at all.

HollyGibney · 29/07/2018 14:21

It is also my very strongly held belief that, given the state of my local schools, our council would be better spending it's limited time and money sorting out the education provided there, at the tax payers expense, than trying to force standards higher than those met by said schools on home educators.

This.

Tabathatwitchett · 29/07/2018 14:21

I think that's exactly what was said Holly. The poster's comment was that the state should focus funds on those in schools and forget about the ones that aren't.

DieAntword · 29/07/2018 14:23

Wow. Thank God my children being raised to value diversity and to reflect on their own cultural choices. Your words there are very dangerous to a cohesive and inclusive society.

Inclusive as long as people agree with whatever values are fashionable in the mainstream culture.

Tabathatwitchett · 29/07/2018 14:31

Inclusive as long as people agree with whatever values are fashionable in the mainstream culture

Not at all, although I feel that you're referring to something specific here whilst being very vague about it. Is there some specific aspect of your culture that you feel schools don't reflect favourably?

HollyGibney · 29/07/2018 14:32

My child was attacked by a teacher in school. My child was parked in front of a computer with headphones on all day every day when he was in school. I as a pupil attended ten different schools as I was a forces child. Despite attending those schools with black eyes and bruised d face on a number of occasions, being totally apathetic and low achieving, no referral was ever made and no concern ever raised as to what was happening in my home. My second child is in mainstream. She too has SEN. Nothing was done to support her despite her having an official diagnosis, until the day she started throwing chairs around and self harming and even then I was called in only to address a "discipline" issue. I only managed to get support for her due to being extremely clued up on what our rights were and what support she should be receiving and my ability to express myself well, combined with my willingness to send multiple formal emails to anyone who would listen. I could literally tell you fifty stories like this as related by other families, both in school and home ed.

You cannot expect parents to comply with standards and requirements that our schools just do not, despite lip service being paid to them. I suspect that our government knows this also and this is why flurries of concern about home ed registers and monitoring never amount to anything and are just allowed to fall quietly back into the long grass.

HollyGibney · 29/07/2018 14:33

You cannot expect Home Ed parents

DieAntword · 29/07/2018 14:37

Not at all, although I feel that you're referring to something specific here whilst being very vague about it. Is there some specific aspect of your culture that you feel schools don't reflect favourably?

My culture? I'm white British, family are pretty culturally mainstream not part of anything weird (except being neo-pagans which is not really anything censured by mainstream society). But we brought the Roma into it, then there's people like the Hasidics and so on. Some of the more conservative Christian denominations. Some sections of the Islamic community etc who receive censure for beliefs (e.g. about say homosexuality or the role of women) or cultural characteristics (say marrying young or sending their sons to full time yeshiva in leiu of a broader education) that they don't impose on anyone else that are highly controversial in mainstream society.

Lessstressedhemum · 29/07/2018 14:42

Stop trying to put words into my mouth. No one is throwing home ed children to the wolves. What I said was that perhaps councils should get their own house in order. How can they condemn the splinter in their brother's eye while ignoring the log on their own. If they can spot"flaws" in the educational provision home edders give, why is their own ability to educate so woefully inadequate? Why are so many children so very badly let down?

Again, schools and EWO'S are only a small part of of the picture as regards to safeguarding our children. In my capacity at church, I have made several referrals to SS and the church's safeguarding headquarters both in my SC role and, y BB role. Doctors, dentists, health visitors, youth club leaders, neighbours, anyone really can do the same if they are concerned about a child whether educationally, physically or anything else.

You clearly have a negative opinion of home education and are looking to twist or deliberately misunderstand what others are saying.

Lessstressedhemum · 29/07/2018 14:48

And I will say it again. I was abused for years as a child. I was assaulted and RAPED in school repeatedly. No issue was ever raised, no concern was ever shown, despite my attendance being bad and my attitude worse, because I was a bright kid who raised school attainment.

Several of my kids were so badly bullied at school that doctors signed them off on the sick at ages 6, 8 and 12 (different kids at different times) The schools did nothing. The council drove my husband to a nervous breakdown by the behaviour the exhibited in respect of my kids. No one did anything.

What exactly makes school a better place than home.

crunchymint · 29/07/2018 14:49

Safeguarding used to be a mixed bag in schools - some schools did it terribly. You really can not compare the past approach, to now days where safeguarding is a crucial aspect in schools.

And yes IME most HE families don't care if kids are being abused in other HE families. What they care about most is being able to do what they want with their kids without even minimal oversight.

Tabathatwitchett · 29/07/2018 14:54

Safeguarding used to be a mixed bag in schools - some schools did it terribly. You really can not compare the past approach, to now days where safeguarding is a crucial aspect in schools

I would agree that. 20 years AJP when I started out safeguarding was nowhere near as significant in schools as it is now. Victoria Climbie and the following Serious Case Review did much to improve it.

Tabathatwitchett · 29/07/2018 14:57

Die due you not think that teaching tolerance in schools is important? Allowing communities to propagate homophobic views etc because they are a part of their cultural standpoint is not a good thing.

Tabathatwitchett · 29/07/2018 14:58

That should say 20 years ago. Phone doing its own thing....

DieAntword · 29/07/2018 15:02

Die due you not think that teaching tolerance in schools is important? Allowing communities to propagate homophobic views etc because they are a part of their cultural standpoint is not a good thing.

I don't believe "tolerance" can be taught and I think what is taught is a specific concept of right and wrong that may be different to that in the home but is equally absolutist in nature.

I think as long as there is no legal censure against people from a specific group (eg homosexuals) and active violence or discrimination in things like employment etc are not allowed then people should be allowed to think, say - and pass on to their families - whatever they like. It's all well and good when the controversial opinion is something you disagree with - but the fashions of rights and wrongs are changing all the time, one day the shoe could be on the other foot. Freedom has costs but it's better for everyone that we have it.

HollyGibney · 29/07/2018 15:04

The issues I describe with my children happened 8 years and one year ago respectively.

Lessstressedhemum · 29/07/2018 15:07

And those with mine, between 15 and 10 years ago, so not that long really.

DN4GeekinDerby · 29/07/2018 15:11

Part of why the government recently did a consultation on home education is to figure out how the current systems are working. They aren't for many. We have some schools pushing trouble kids out to be home educated so they don't mess up the school's scores (personally, I think part of school stats available should be a leave rate - all schools will have some due to moving and things but those with high rate could be flagged) and we do have some parents who use home education as an excuse to not do anything. We have education services which have responsibilities but also facing cuts and home educated kids are an easy group to just put on the backburner due to the small size and some louder elements known for being against anything government-related to be involved. All kids deserve an education, they have a legal right to it, but the responsibilities to make sure it happens...the system is pretty much set up now to ignore that. That goes for home educated kids and school educated kids.

There is an issue with lack of trust with professionals - it's quite difficult for many to report if there is an issue and those of us who have often feel like it didn't do anything. My kids are known to social services - we've been reported by several medical professionals from pediatricians to a dentist. I've had the letters and phone calls and visits to the point we've been told by social services, who are sympathetic but have a responsibility when these reports happen, that the conversations are pretty much the same - someone reports my kids as not in school, they get told my kids are registered as home educated and that this is not a social services issue (it's an education welfare issue), and then something gets made up like them being dirty. It's gotten to the point we take photos of all the kids prior to any appointments on their recommendations. I've had a few lovely conversations with social services staff and there is nothing any of us can do about it.

Like others, while for the first few years I had yearly visits and sent yearly reports, I haven't heard anything from them for the rest of the time. I asked once for a few months delay as we were preparing and dealing with a family member's funeral and haven't heard anything since beyond the offers for secondary school my older two got to which they both declined. I emailed to say they were declining them and that was that. I've previously made the jokes that they were looking for an excuse to no longer have to deal with my 20-30+ page reports and all those spreadsheets, but the fact in recent years I've had for more discussions with social services about home education than anyone in council involved in education does raise concerns for me. It does feel like we've been left to the wolves, much like with school educated kids in bad schools who are quiet and any needs they might have are ignored.

I grew up in the Bible belt in an evangelical community commonly seen in many of the US HE horror stories. They would tell you up and down that what they do would never interfere or encourage violence on others - but they would also say girls shouldn't go to University and certainly don't need to learn as many subjects as their brothers, that boys should follow in their father's footsteps, that only religious Universities are acceptable and anything else is going to lead them astray or cause the community to shun them (and there is a major issue in the US with religious colleges and Unis with these communities funding colleges and Universities giving really bad educations that prevent kids from leaving). They would tell you that making a girl care for their younger siblings and cleaning up after them and her father is just 'cultural'/'how we do things', that making a boy work in his father's business without pay was just helping him be part of the community and build work ethic. I don't care how bad the schools are, those kids have the same rights and deserve the same consideration and society has the same responsibility to them as those in the same community who send their kids to school. There is room to for all of them to be considered and more options for things being assessed. I don't view it as the councils condemning but acknowledging and figuring out a way to make the responsibility for education transparent rather than what is going now for all kids where most are ignored.

Now, UK home education community is quite different to American ones. All the research I've seen shows the UK ones are more reactionary - the vast majority start in schools and come out after issues rather than those like my kids who have never been to school and tend to use very different education philosophies. It's part of why I'm confused by the idea that anyone "knows all about HE" when there are a dozen or so of popular home education philosophies and methods alongside the different ways different councils deal with home educators. I'm structured, not quite of the classical-leaning but of that general framework of subjects and methods, my kids' best friends are in a family that uses an unschooler-unit study approach, both home educated but very different. Other home educators brag about never using textbooks or worksheets, only 'living books' where I heavily use both and find most ~living book~ recommendations duller than dishwater especially for pretty much any science topic. I know others like the OP who said that just being in an environment with literature get kids to read (which I don't agree with) while I use phonics throughout - my just finished Year 8 child still does phonetical nonsense word practice before moving onto speech skills regularly.

As this thread looks like it's about to be full, maybe another home educator could do another AMA or another post on this? I could do it though I'm pretty slow at typing.

Tabathatwitchett · 29/07/2018 15:12

I don't believe "tolerance" can be taught

I disagree. I think that knowledge breeds tolerance. I think history has shown this to be true.

DieAntword · 29/07/2018 15:14

I think that knowledge breeds tolerance.

There was a large community of highly educated intellectuals who wholeheartedly cheered on the Nazis. I don't think it's anything like that simple.

MrsChollySawcutt · 29/07/2018 15:15

Lessstressedmum said: 'What exactly makes school a better place than home?'

I think it depends upon the home and the school you are comparing. Surely we can all agree that there are plenty of good and bad examples of both HE and schools?

I'm entirely happy with the schools my DC attend. I've chosen them carefully and monitor there happiness and progress carefully. But there are also schools in my local that I really wouldn't be happy sending them to.

Tabathatwitchett · 29/07/2018 15:20

Die I don't wish to turn the thread into a history essay but fear of difference, resulting from a lack of knowledge and understanding of those differences is what was at the heart of Nazi propaganda.

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