I'm a radical unschooler AMA

[OutOfControlSpirals]

I'm a radical unschooling mum, which basically means I've taken the principals of unschooling, where a child is free to learn what they want, when they want, and applied it to every aspect of our lives. So my children have the same freedoms that I do when it comes to eating/sleeping/learning etc.

The thing some posters seem to be disregarding is that schools generally support the high/low spectrum of children. Middle of the road kids tend to get overlooked. In a class of 30 not much 1:1 attention can be given. I still stand by I couldn't have done what OP is doing, financially and because it wouldn't have been a good emotional fit for me (possibly selfish 🤔 but I believe better overall for my child). OP sounds like her kids are still socialised - it's not a middle of nowhere little house on the prairie scenario.

I'm not doubting that it's not possible however surely without formal qualifications it's going to be a heck of a lot harder to get where you want to be.

Happy to be proven wrong however.

Op your lifestyle seems idyllic. But I find it difficult to believe that there's never ever tensions in the house and that you get by without ever telling them off.

I think you e experienced some bristling because you've made several negative assumptions about parenting from those who you regard as conventional.

I don't agree with this at all. I think it's a very polarising choice and like many other parenting decisions some people take it very personally and react negatively, reading criticism into those choices. Why should the OP not be able to state her opinions and explain her choices? We all think our way is the best way, that's why we do it. If you perceive criticism in OP explaining the positives for her family then that's on you. I have been home educating for seven years and I have received overwhelming negativity whenever it comes up in conversation. It makes people very defensive and hostile. I wish my child could be in school, life would be far easier for me if he was. I only care that he's happy and thriving and if I am asked I will expound on why I think it was the right thing to do and the positives that come from it. Many people take that very personally though as though you're criticising their choice. Home Ed gets a terrible reception on MN just as in RL.

@Frazzled2207 why wouldn't unschooled children go and get the qualifications they need? They are unlikely to do SATS, and they are fairly unlikely to do a huge clutch of 14 GCSEs, unless they have aspirations for a really high powered university, but apart from that, they get to 14 or 15 and start to work out what they want to do in life, just like anyone else, and then work out the routes to get there.

How many teens is it who get 5 good GCSE passeS? www.theguardian.com/education/2017/aug/24/proportion-of-students-getting-good-gcse-grades-falls-after-reforms about 66% according to the Guardian. So that's more than 3 teens in every ten who gets poor academic results at GCSE that might constrain their future choices. Not everyone is going to thrive in those academic terms, but they may well thrive fabulously "in the real world" in a vocational job. Academically-minded home educated teens can perfectly well get the qualifications they need. And those who are not academically strong can get on with developing the skills they need to function productively in society playing to their strengths, without the soul destroying process of failing 7 or 8 public exams aged 16...

That comment about 'saturated with literature' become readers is bollocks. Children need to be taught how to link letter shape with sound. Then how to blend those sounds together, then learn the exceptions to those rules. I know this because I am qualified to teach reading. You sound full of it!

frazzled I’m happy to agree to disagree! if qualifications are vital (like if child wants to go into medicine) they can take formal qualifications younger and start college at 14, the beauty of unschooling is that it’s their choice. If they want to be a doctor you research with them to figure out how they’ll get there and most home ed kids have more time to figure out what they want to do so in most cases do decide early on how they’re going to do it.

They will be made to conform eventually

Yes, but they will have the confidence after not being institutionalised to choose how and what they want to confirm to.
before I'm jumped on, schools are institutions just like Hospitals, Prisons, they follow set rules and policies.

Conform to gaining a Maths qualification, because they actually need one to progress, have found this out for themselves, not because they are told they need to.

Not sure how being at home with matted hair eating supernoodles and playing minecraft would have added anything to be honest

Something about the way that’s written made me spit half my Chardonnay over the keyboard
As you were.
I did a AMA and answered every single question #proud

The thing I don’t get about parents like OP who invest so much time and energy into indulging their children’s supposed innate propensity for being interested and wanting to learn (how anyone knows any human being in its infancy/early years has enough of such a propensity to make the difference between just existing for a lifetime and being able to exploit the entire richness of the world for a lifetime, I really don’t know), who “respect” their children’s feelings at all ages and choose to talk everything through with them as though they have the mental capacity to understand complex issues and put their intellect above their emotions (half the adults on the planet can’t master this), is what they think is going to happen to these children when they fly the nest.

These children will grow into adults who will struggle with anything that has to happen “just because”, which is the vast majority of life in the West. What do you think you’re equipping your children to do, for the rest of their lives?

I also think it’s a tremendous failing on the part of a parent who raises their child like this to ignore the immense value of the PROCESS of formal education. 99.9% of people don’t use algebra or trigonometry in their day to day life. But mastering it teaches logic, mental discipline, schematic thought. Exams are standardized for various reasons which are not the best for every single child. BUT they teach children about time, stress, success and failure, peer pressure. No doubt you’ll tell me you teach your children all these things anyway - but why reinvent the wheel in such a risky experimental way?

Your children are no more special or interesting or amazing than anybody else’s children. Your children will, on the whole, end up with strengths and weaknesses just like conventionally schooled children. Do you accept that your choices are, essentially, about YOU and YOUR values, rather than what’s necessarily best for them individually? I mean, you’re the adult. If you let a child make their own choices when they’re good and ready, what if they’re too late? Human brains are like sponges until the age of 25-odd after which the same output starts to require more effort. Your daughters have ticking biological clocks. How can you ignore these immutable facts?

Interesting posts from you OP. We home ed...Ds1 chose secondary school after being home edded for primary years and Ds2 now 11 dosen't want to go at the moment. We are semi structured I suppose but agree with a lot of what you have said.

@RosaMallory I promise you, all my children are fluent readers, and they were not taught to read by anyone. We certainly talked about linking letters to sounds when they were tiny, but nobody taught them anything about blending or exceptions to the rules. They must have just worked that out quietly by themselves.

What does conform even mean now? Genuine question. Adults are free to get tattoos, piercings, dyed hair, they can be gay/straight/bi/whatever they can be fat/thin/athletic it’s very rare that a job requires you to conform in the traditional sense

You didn't answer my questions.

I'm finding this thread fascinating (now I've got over my mild irritation at the label - I can see why the OP has used it, as it's a useful shorthand, but seriously, anyone who genuinely is 'radical' really doesn't need to use the word to describe themselves...)

I think the turning point for me was the poster popping on to boast about her child's KS2 SATs results, apparently genuinely believing that they are the sole measure of a young person's potential at the age of 11. Bloody hell, those league tables have got a lot to answer for...

I think my question, OP, is - do you think all human beings have the ability to be 'self motivated' when it comes to personal development/learning? Because I honestly don't think I am, and nor are my children; but my friends' kids (five of them, all attending mainstream schools, and with plenty of top down discipline, but nonetheless 'listened to' considerably more than most children I know) are all phenomenally self-motivated. I wonder how much of it is nature, and how much nurture (and how much the education system as it currently stands might be squishing out of 'em :-/)

rosamallory I read to my son and still do, he’s fluent at reading and I never sat down and ‘taught’ him. I think people learn in all different ways though

@greenyogagirl I’m a doctor. Went to one of the biggest medical schools in the country, and I’ve never met a home educated doctor.

The level of knowledge and educational attainment required is so high, I think t would be extremely u likely that children would be able to learn what they needed without formal schooling. Also the social skills you need are learnt in large groups, ins treasful circumstances etc.

Not saying being a doctor is better than any other career. But I think children who haven’t had a formal education are at a massive disadvantage, sadly

Why won’t they catch up? If a child learns to read at 3, 10 or 15 I can guarantee they’ll all be at the same level come adulthood.

What a complete load of bollocks.

OutOfControlSpirals

One child refused to brush or their hair for 2 years. I was fine with that. Their body, their choice. They didn't like washing it, but understood the smell wasn't appealing to others so asked me to help them find away to fix it without having to wash it. I did. When one of them was 4 they ate nothing but instant noodles every night for 6 months.

^

That’s not home education. That’s neglect.

Tbh if the OP wants to home school or in school her children, I couldn’t care less.

But I’d have been way more impressed if it had been the DH who had abandoned his career to do it, while the OP went out and made the most of her ten degrees and 64 diplomas

Would you let them go to mainstream school if they wanted to?

To me it seems alien that a child wouldn't want to go to school. I have read the full thread and at times your actions would appear neglectful regardless of your intentions. FWIW I have a traditionally educated DD and we still do all the things you do - it's enriching the formal curriculum but certainly shouldn't, IMO, replace it.

Conform?

Turn up for work on time
Eat when allowed... scheduled breaks etc
Wear what told to wear
Some jobs....tattoos hidden
No jewellery In Some jobs
Go on courses
Hair brushed!!

A few small examples

theonlyliving how is it? Do you think everyone reading this thread learned how to read at the exact same age?

Ommm: “ders, and they were not taught to read by anyone. We certainly talked about linking letters to sounds when they were tiny, but nobody taught them anything about blending or exceptions to the rules. They must have just worked that out quietly by themselves.”

But there are plenty of adults who never learned to read. What if your child had been one of those who DIDN’T just magically absorb letters off the page? At what point woukd you have tried to sit down and teach them?

In fact, does any Home schooler actually pay any attention to what the average child can do at set ages, or is it all “my child will learn X, Y, Z when he/she is ready”?

At what point do you come concerned that they HAVEN’T picked something up? Or don’t you?

I used to be a primary teacher and I think most parents don't realise just how slowly children learn at school, simply due to the fact that there are 25+ small fidgety bodies in a room, mostly wanting to listen but often doing other things like falling off chairs, poking their neighbour, dropping bits of tissue. A teacher spends an enormous amount of time basically engaging in crowd control and a lot of (well-behaved, keen) children spend a lot of time waiting for Jonny to stop disrupting the class and Clare to finally get her pen out. So much time is wasted on logistics - hours and hours. For that reason I think home ed can often be incredibly effective, due solely to the fact that the child can just get on and do what needs doing.

One thing I wonder about OP is the onus being on the children to self direct. In many cases I think that's great but I think it's also quite exhausting - directing your own learning requires an extra layer of mental effort that a lot of adults struggle with - do you find your children cope? Do they ask you for guidance?

crisscross radical unschooling means if a child wants to go to school they can, it’s up to them.