I live in Saudi Arabia. AMA!

[Shmithecat]

I still hear so many daft claims about certain aspects of living in KSA. Happy to confirm or deny what you've been told!

Great thread OP. One of my teachers in secondary school lived in KSA for a number of years and often told us stories of what a great place it was to raise children. I also ffollow a Dutch woman who works in KAUST who is sad to be leaving soon. Their family seem to have a great time there.

Shmithecat Sat 21-Jul-18 19:31:43

"Xenia
I suspect he could take on 3 extra wives one of whom could be 12 and would have rights to the existing child so it is quite a risky thing to do to go out to these places particularly if you don't earn any money and are totally reliant on the man.

No..we're not Muslim, none of that applies to us."

He could convert tomorrow though and then it would apply to him - if he fancied having all the extra wives etc and had fallen out with you and wanted to stay in KSA with the child. I believe Muslim belief is everyone on the planet is born muslim.

What an interesting thread OP, thanks.

There are human rights violations in every country in the world. At what level does it become morally reprehensible to make a living?

I would say at the level Saudi Arabia is at.

Obviously you have justified it to yourself (although the argument "well 600 years ago everyone lived like this do we condemn our ancestors" is so ludicrous, surely you didn't mean it seriously?) because it suits your financial goals. There is absolutely nothing in anything you have posted which makes SA alluring for anything but the money. I think you and other expats with lots of choices should actually own that decision and not pretend it is anything other than it is. You are swapping tolerance of a brutal regime for money. It isn't like you are yemeni labourers or fillipino maids with little choice.

Why don't we just cut out the middle man and you tell me what I should think?

Brilliant

Thanks for answering op and thanks for the thread.

Another question op.

I watched a very trashy programme on Netflix about property in Dubai: 'Deals in the Desert' (judge me please)

And all properties had a 'dirty' kitchen - an outdoor kitchen where they bbq meat etc so it doesn't stink the house out... But why don't they just have overhead fans? Or is it because people eat outdoors so much, its closer to the terrace?

Oldowl
You say you go out alone all the time- do you mean with your driver, rather than walking out of the compound and down to the local shops?

I can walk to the local shops by myself and often do.

Is it possible for your family to come over to visit?

Yes. By invitation from dh/his company for now but regular tourist visas will be available soon, no sponsor or invitation needed. I'm excited about that!

What was your UK life like?

Life was good! Then dh was headhunted for a couple of positions. One in Australia, one in KSA. Australia appealed from a lifestyle POV but there was no option to save as taxes and living expenses are high there. KSA offered an incredible opportunity to save, and a great addition to my dhs CV. We knew we wanted to start a family too, and of course, kids cost money!

Was it a hard decision to go to the KSA?

No. But only because we didn't know how much of a culture shock it would be. If I knew before we went how hard it would be for the first year or so, I wouldn't have gone tbh.

How many years will it take earning in KSA to be mortgage free in the UK? (Are we thinking about London or Leeds prices!?)

We're looking at East Midlands prices so not too much for what we want! If we saved every single penny available, maybe 4 years. But we don't, we do have a reasonable standard of life. So maybe 6 years or so?

When present with the facts that the KSA is in the top 10 human rights violators in the world you think a  is appropriate @delphguelph ? Ok.

I'm not telling anyone what to think I'm presenting facts and asking questions you can draw your own conclusions and obviously are.

I too think it is an interesting thread. Sometimes things are interesting for what is left out.

Mousse would you go to Cuba? Given its human rights record?

Train101
Wow you've actually changed my opinion.
Tbh all you hear is it is backwards and a horrible place but how you put it, it doesn't sound a bed of roses but it sounds a million times better then I heard.

It is what you make it. And there's a lot of support from fellow expats in the tough times. Its relatively short term pain for long term gain.

Do you ever think women will have equal rights?

Maybe not in my lifetime. But if MBS continues down the path he's on, maybe so.

What changes would you like to see in the next 10 years?

I'd like to see changes to the racism in the country. Its horrid sometimes. Heartbreaking.

If you could only change one law what would it be?

The end of the sponsorship laws and the availability of permanent residency to those who were born in the KSA to expat parents. To give them more autonomy and control over their own future in the country.

Also think you're getting a hard time, you don't choose the laws and traditions and are just trying to do your best for your family.

I don't take it personally. I'm not easily offended by strangers on the internet.

CatNut2017
Just a thanks to the OP who is getting such a hard time. This is super interesting
My pleasure. I've had hard times in my life and this is not one of them. I'm thoroughly enjoying this thread

Thanks for answering

lastnightidreamtofpotatoes
Great thread OP. One of my teachers in secondary school lived in KSA for a number of years and often told us stories of what a great place it was to raise children. I also ffollow a Dutch woman who works in KAUST who is sad to be leaving soon. Their family seem to have a great time there.

KAUST is incredible. Definitely something Saudi can be proud of.

Xenia
He could convert tomorrow though and then it would apply to him - if he fancied having all the extra wives etc and had fallen out with you and wanted to stay in KSA with the child. I believe Muslim belief is everyone on the planet is born muslim.

Yeah, no. Dh likes bacon too much.

But yes, you are correct, Muslims believe everyone is born into Islam so if someone decides to follow Islam and didn't from birth, they are reverting rather than converting.

WaitrosePigeon
What an interesting thread OP, thanks.

You're welcome.

delphguelph
Another question op.
I watched a very trashy programme on Netflix about property in Dubai: 'Deals in the Desert' (judge me please)
And all properties had a 'dirty' kitchen - an outdoor kitchen where they bbq meat etc so it doesn't stink the house out... But why don't they just have overhead fans? Or is it because people eat outdoors so much, its closer to the terrace?

I honestly haven't got a clue! It's not a thing in Saudi IME. In fact, us daft expats are the only ones stupid enough to choose to bbq outside in 40°c heat!

Dapplegrey Cuba is an interesting one although not in the top 10 human rights abusers in the world it does have issues.

Everyone draws their moral line differently and that is fair. I would probably avoid the top ten human rights abusers in the world. And as the KSA hits two of those places both the KSA and the abuses in Yemen I would avoid it.

This is not a semantic point, this is not subtle the KSA is a homophobic, misogynistic, violent, repressive regime that indulges in public torture.

Although, the shops are lovely and you get a nice big house.

Depends on your priorities.

Have you seen the amnesty international report on human rights abuse?

We may not be top, but the UK, EU, USA, and Australia feature in the report as having some poor human rights

Mousse Cuba has an appalling human rights record but I presume you are prepared to overlook this because it's got a left wing government.

Train101
Have you seen the amnesty international report on human rights abuse?
We may not be top, but the UK, EU, USA, and Australia feature in the report as having some poor human rights

Yeah, but only a little bit of violation so it's ok...

I wasn't aiming at you OP hope you didn't think that

I'm making the point that the OP can't help the human rights situation there and is purely looking out for her family and their well being.
No country is perfect but we shouldn't blame the average normal citizen / resident for that, we should blame the people in the power.
The US government did a mainly Muslim travel ban, separated children from parents etc China censors heavily, Russia is horrible in human rights, EU let's migrants drown and then doesn't support them when they arrive here.
But I don't blame an individual from that country, I blame the government.
So stop attacking the OP for her choices and instead maybe tackle the regime in charge.

Train101
I wasn't aiming at you OPhope you didn't think that

I know.

I was expecting worse than what Mousse or pallisers have contributed. Got off lightly even. I'm comfortable with the choices I've made for my family. I'm not massively worried about what anyone else thinks. Just thought that people might like to hear about the country from someone who actually lives there.

I'm very glad you started this, actually enlightened me

@Train101 I said "Cuba is an interesting one although not in the top 10 human rights abusers in the world it does have issues" how is that me ignoring it because it has a left wing government?

I clearly state it does have issues, I apologise for not making the point you wanted me to make.

I agree the OP is "purely looking out for her family" no arguments from me on that one.

As I have said lots of countries have issues but the KSA is in the top ten and has committed human rights abuses in the KSA and Yemen, it has recently breached the Geneva Convention, it tortures it's citizens in public.

I will say this slowly - it beheads people in public. Public beheading ffs.

This is not small fry, or little misdemeanours. It beheads people in public.

Let's try this OP how do you feel about living in a country that beheads people in public? Personally, all the money in the world would not get me to over look that one.

OP can you answer my kitchen question please? You're dropping the ball

All properties in Dubai had a 'dirty' kitchen - an outdoor kitchen where they bbq meat etc so it doesn't stink the house out... But why don't they just have overhead fans? Or is it because people eat outdoors so much, its closer to the terrace?

I guess it's the same in the KSM?