I live in Saudi Arabia. AMA!

[Shmithecat]

I still hear so many daft claims about certain aspects of living in KSA. Happy to confirm or deny what you've been told!

@Smumzo
I'm not sure isolating Saudi Arabia further would make it a more liberal country. Surely exposure to other ideas and norms brought by expats plants seeds of doubts over some of the more draconian practices. It might feel good to act sanctimonious about their practices but I don't think that's how progress is made.

Precisely.

@Windowsareforcheaters
When I drive past that police station who is being tortured inside?
How would I know? How would anyone know?

Amnesty and HRW report regularly, they try to highlight cases. By publicising cases they want to focus a spotlight on the atrocities. There is a significant amount of publicity surrounding these cases because they are so horrific.

So the torture happens actually IN police stations? Which ones?

If you don't come across news about them I must assume you don't see much western media. The information is there and it's clear in the western press.

As it is the country you live in you might do some research.

I reckon I could 'research' all day long and I still wouldn't know which police station it was happening in... I can be just as facetious and obtuse as you are. Of course I know what happens. But I certainly don't have dropped pin style info on where.

Ignoring it does not make it go away. You are clearly able to pretend it is not happening where you live and it is not being paid for by the taxes you make for the regime.

Lots of other people couldn't.

I'm not ignoring anything. You however seem to have ignored the MULTIPLE posts I've made commenting on my feelings about the violations.

Again the point was made about other countries. The KSA is always in the top 10 human rights abusers in the world. If nothing else avoid those countries it still leaves a lot of places to visit or live.

This is where by husbands job is. So we live here. It's as simple as that.

No, I consider myself and decent and loving mother who certainly wouldn't be happy if my child was whipped in public or punished for reporting a rape. What an odd question confused

If your child is gay or reports a rape, that is what will happen.

@Segmentationfault

The gay people I have met in Saudi haven't been whipped... your blanket statement of 'if you're gay you will be whipped' is just not true. If my son turns out to be gay and we're still living here (highly unlikely, but still), then I'll be telling them how to behave to avoid such arrests. All I can do, if I were to have a dd, is my very best to ensure that she never gets into any kind of scenario that would potentially end that dreadfully.

Following this thread with interest.
OP : you’ve stated a number of times that you are ok with living in KSA despite the appalling human rights and animal welfare issues because the money is for your ds.
Can I ask is there some particular reason that your ds will be needing so much money? I think I’ve understood correctly that due to your dh’s job you were in fact already comfortably off in the uk, but clearly it wasn’t enough.

@TheKitchenWitch
Following this thread with interest.
OP : you’ve stated a number of times that you are ok with living in KSA despite the appalling human rights and animal welfare issues because the money is for your ds.
Can I ask is there some particular reason that your ds will be needing so much money? I think I’ve understood correctly that due to your dh’s job you were in fact already comfortably off in the uk, but clearly it wasn’t enough.

How well off we were or weren't in the UK isn't really anyones business. But no, it wasn't enough to get us mortgage free and have enough saved for ds' education and general future.

How much is 'enough' depends on so many factors but you've already said your DH earns £220k/year in KSA and you've been there for 5 years... and he earned highly before that. So how much are you aiming for? (This is none of my business but neither is anything else, and you're the one who posted in AMA!)

Speaking as someone who did turn down several very lucrative job offers in KSA and elsewhere, due to my personal makes and ethics, I am concerned what impact your attitude and lack of concern for anything that doesnt impact you will have on your child. You may have a fortune to pass down find yourselves morally bankrupt.

I earn a great deal less than I could but have made choices to ensure my children have a well rounded life with opportunities and comfort. My personal morals, values and ethics which affect my decision making are as important as any sum of money I pass down. And I say that as someone who grew up in poverty with a single parent who was uncompromising in her personal beliefs. What I learnt from my mum was better than any money and set me up for a wonderful life.

Personal morals not makes

@imabusybee have a and a . You've really earned them.

imabusybee I applaud your principled stance, ignore the cheap shots and sarcasm

And, I didn't say he earned £220k. I said that was the total of the package. As you've had so many offers from KSA etc @imabusybee, you'll know there's a difference.

@Smotheroffive
.... everyone goes there for the money... so its worth it right?

For us, yes. Totally

Just, urgh. I don't think I'd be at all comfortable to owning up to that morality (not that you're alone in that, far from it I'm sure, all worth it for the money, heh)

Do those of you that find individuals like myself, you know, lacking morals, ethics etc, also have the same level of disgust at corporations/business operating out there, making money, 'supporting the regime'?

Yep, absolutely, how are they any different morally?

Why, do you not?

Is this leading to something?

Well not really. Most peoples headline salary doesnt reach the bank due to tax, mortgages, pension contributions etc but since you're not paying tax I imagine the take home figure is much closer to £220k than if you were in the UK

shmith, I'm wondering if there's quite a few sockpuppets here. None of my business, but I think it might be easier to leave the moral highground folk to feel smug

SeaEagleFeather
Care to list the sock puppets you say are on this thread, as it seems like you are trying to undermine pp that might have concurring opinions independently and accuse them being some sort of conspiracy to knock down people who do what OP is?

What's a sock puppet? I've been on MN for years and read this thread during my son's naps today.. I'm usually more of a lurker but decided to post to lend a bit of support to the other previous posters whose opinions I agreed with.

You don't need to justify imabusybee

No-one does.

@Smotheroffive

This is a list, not exhaustive, of companies that trade in KSA. Be sure to boycott them, lest your ethical halo slip...

M&S
Tesco
Spar
Debenhams
Jo Malone
Boots
H&M
Timberland
Mothercare
Sports Direct
IKEA
Maccy Ds
Burger King
KFC
Mercedes
Ford
Nissan
Lexus
Toyota
Body shop
Mamas and Papas
Matalan
Costa
Starbucks
Virgin Media
BA
BAE
Airbus
UK MOD - who get paid directly by the Saudi Government.
RLB
Drake and Skull
Faithful & Gould
Ernst & Young
Deloittes
PWC
HSBC - known as SAAB here.

And many many many more. HTH.

@Smotheroffive

You don't need to justifyimabusybee

No-one does.

Except for me

No one has to justify themselves no. Not even schmith.

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea

I lived in Jeddah in the 70s and 80s too!
Were you at school there? If so which one?
We were there 76 - 83.

It makes not one jot of difference to Saudis Arabia whether immigrants go there to work or not. It would never in a million years make an ounce of difference to their policies. The more influence they experience from other cultures the better. That's how change happens and grows organically. Ironically the people on this thread who think they are taking the moral highground are showing exactly the same inflexibility as the those who enforce the horrific laws in KSA. If you think punishment and hard line stances will work you're in good company with the likes of North Korea's, KSAs and lots of other lovely leaders. There has to be common ground and slow organic change. No one likes to have someone else's morals forced upon them. It wouldn't stick.

Thanks for answers questions OP. You've made your stance clear. I'm sorry people have continued to badger and bait you.

Exactly @Smumzo. Perfectly put. All of it