I live in Saudi Arabia. AMA!

[Shmithecat]

I still hear so many daft claims about certain aspects of living in KSA. Happy to confirm or deny what you've been told!

Ok, so beheadings and crucifixions... yeah, not nice. And whilst I actually don't agree with capital punishment, I honestly don't get the rage over beheading. I mean, death is death. I don't see beheading as any worse than the electric chair, or lethal injection etc as at least 30 states in the USA prescribe 🤷‍♀️.

Yes, MBS totally dropped a bollock with the whole Khashoggi case. All very dodgy. But if dodgy goings on like that were cause enough to leave a country, there wouldn't be many left to choose to live in. I'm still convinced that Dr David Kelly was murdered, but I'd never abandon the UK.

I'm safe here. I don't break the law. It's that simple. Yes, the consequences for doing so here are far far more harsh than in most other countries. But it does tend to serve as a very good deterrent. I feel safe here. We have no need to lock our front door when we leave the house/compound. So much is child orientated here, which makes life easy with a 3yo. And I do believe that experts here will have an influence on the development of this country. It will take a long time, but it will get there. I had a family member visit us for a couple of weeks last month. They loved it here. Inside and outside the compound. Remarked on how friendly and helpful everyone was. I will acknowledge that being white and western here helps, but tbh, I think that's true across the globe unfortunately.

And FFS, I do NOT need to be chaperoned when I go out, and I will NOT get arrested for having breakfast with a man that is not my husband.

expats, not experts.

OP you’ll be blamed for Brexit and fake news next.

Great thread, very informative! Proof that there should be a ‘hide all posts from a certain poster’ button to save scrolling whenever there name pops up.

Would you happen to know if a uk barrister could work there? Do you know any expat lawyers?

Their name*

@Pengrin I was expecting a total shit shower. But tbh, strangers on the internet and their opinions of me and my morals really doesn't matter. Quite bemused at how important they think their opinions are though. I just wanted to answer questions that people may have had about living here. I think that most people on here entered into the spirit of it.

Oops, sorry, didn't answer your question. Commercial law, yes, definitely. Other aspects, not so sure. Which one are you in?

I just wanted to answer questions that people may have had about living here.

Well you certainly did that! It’s a wonder you found the time what with you being personally responsible for all of society’s human rights issues.

Re the lawyer jobs: DD is married to a barrister who practises in civil and family law. They are very keen to experience living abroad in various places before settling down but his job doesn’t seem transferable so has stalled things somewhat.

Does amazon deliver to ksa?

@wizzywig, yes, some bits from the US site are available to be shipped here. Amazon also own Souq.com. But the post is notoriously bad here, so its not always reliable. I did order an HDMI extender from souq.com. Figured it wasn't much money to lose if it didn't turn up. To my surprise, the order did turn up, but it was a bottle of dunhill aftershave, not the cable I wanted 😂. But it's not a warehouse operations here, and returning it was more faff than it was worth, so I gifted the aftershave and waited until I next went home to the UK and brought one back with me..

What a fascinating thread! I read it from beginning to end, was a bit gutted to realised that it was a zombie thread (as I’d wanted to post), then very happy to see you back on here and that the discussion is still going @Shmithecat2.

Why don't we just cut out the middle man and you tell me what I should think? has gone straight in at No.1 in my top 10 great responses. I raise a toast to you for your admirable sangfroid in the face of repetitive hectoring.

The wine brings me neatly on to my first question (assuming that you’re still up for answering questions?)... Do people drink on the compounds, how risky is that, and is it only home brewed stuff that’s available?

Secondly, heat... I know you mentioned that some areas are less baking than others, but presumably it’s very hot everywhere? Is air con very widespread?

Animals... you mentioned cats - did you take them with you or acquire them over there? You mentioned attitudes to animals being pretty awful - could you elaborate?

@JoinTheMicrodots

What a fascinating thread! I read it from beginning to end, was a bit gutted to realised that it was a zombie thread (as I’d wanted to post), then very happy to see you back on here and that the discussion is still going@Shmithecat2.

Why don't we just cut out the middle man and you tell me what I should think?has gone straight in at No.1 in my top 10 great responses.I raise a toast to you for your admirable sangfroid in the face of repetitive hectoring.

The wine brings me neatly on to my first question (assuming that you’re still up for answering questions?)... Do people drink on the compounds, how risky is that, and is it only home brewed stuff that’s available?

Yes, people do drink in the compounds, mainly homebrew. Its not massively risky, houses don't get raided. Although, to check whether businesses within compounds were registered for the newly implemented VAT, some compounds that have 'bars' (ours doesn't) got busted. Of course, go to an embassy bar and you can drink what you like, perfectly legally.

Secondly, heat... I know you mentioned that some areas are less baking than others, but presumably it’s very hot everywhere? Is air con very widespread?

Yes, aircon everywhere! Although, its pretty cool and wet in Riyadh right now, so no aircon needed.

Animals... you mentioned cats - did you take them with you or acquire them over there? You mentioned attitudes to animals being pretty awful - could you elaborate?

I did bring my 2 UK cats with me when we first moved but they didn't settle, so they are now with my dm in the UK. We've adopted cats out here and will bring them back when we repat. Attitude wise, animals are seen as disposable. Neutering is seen as optional. Abandoning them for holidays is standard. Keeping dogs outside in all weathers etc. Its awful. Trying to educate is hard work and its mainly expats that do all the TNR work. There is now an official shelter in Riyadh but it's not run very well and is always full. Its quite depressing.

I honestly don't get the rage over beheading. I mean, death is death

How about crucifixion?

How about these sentences are carried up in public?

No? Still can't see the issue?

@Windowsareforcheaters

I have an issue with capital punishment full stop. Whether it's done in public or in private makes no difference to me.

My cousin was there about 30 years ago. One day she was in the local market with her husband and he wandered off. Two local men groped her immediately because she was unaccompanied.

Has that changed, can you go out alone without being subject to sexual harassment?

@Shmithecat2 thanks for answering.

You mentioned that you really struggled to adapt initially. What things did you find most difficult?

@AdoraBell

When I was first here, a taxi driver got a bit over friendly, so I stopped taking street taxis. That's not exclusive to Saudi though, is it? That's exclusive to shitty men 🤷‍♀️. But no, I've never been assaulted in any way, alone or otherwise. Again, sexual assault isn't exclusive to any country, it happens every where. I've been physically assaulted (groped) more times than I can count in UK nightclubs in my youth....

@JoinTheMicrodots

The lack of independence, fearing everything that I'd read before actually getting there, the plight of animals, particularly street cats, not realising how much I'd miss my friends and family. Total culture shock. My dh was working 6 days a week, so it was pretty lonely until I got my own social life going again.

I have an issue with capital punishment full stop. Whether it's done in public or in private makes no difference to me

I to have an issue with capital punishment. I do think there are points that make it worse.

Lack of due process.
Persecution.
Torture.
Cruel and unusual punishment.

While being murdered in public makes no difference to you it might make a hell of a lot of difference to the 16 year old being dragged out to be publicly beheaded. It's not all about you. Human rights are about all humans and their right to dignity.

@Windowsareforcheaters

You asked me about crucifixion and public execution. I actually don't disagree with anything in your post. I can't recall saying anything to the contrary. But if you limit your choice of travel to work etc to countries that don't carry out all of those injustices to varying degrees, you'd have very slim pickings. Whether they're gross injustices, like in KSA, or minor, they're still injustices. A bit like stealing. Whether is a bar of chocolate from the corner shop, or diamonds from a mansion, it's wrong. If you don't think even the most civilised and developed countries in the world bump people off without any due process or human rights, you're deluded. But I guess because they do it in private, it's ok?

I to have an issue with capital punishment. I do think there are points that make it worse.

Lack of due process.
Persecution.
Torture.
Cruel and unusual punishment.

Dunno, seems just like the US. You could start a thread on that?

@SeaEagleFeather Yup!!

Dunno, seems just like the US. You could start a thread on that?

Cruel and unusual punishment is the term used in the US constitution. It is much debated in relation to how it is implemented in the US. The difference is in the US it is debated, discussed and there is judicial oversight and due process.

I don't want to get into whataboutery in relation to other countries the thread is about the KSA?

It is difficult to debate with people who can not see the difference between stealing as a result of poverty and being paid enormous amounts when you are already wealthy. Every justice system in the world considers mitigating circumstances and the severity of the crime but MN posters can understand that.

I find it odd that seemingly well educated posters on MN can not see the difference between impoverished workers and wealthy, well educated, skilled workers from developed countries. Circumstances alter cases and to try to make moral equivalence between stealing for food when you are poor and stealing to add to your wealth shows a lack of understanding and empathy.

I have problems with the US justice system but they don't whip people for being gay and a women's testimony is legally equal to a man's in court. Although I expect @Breeze44 to come along and argue that this is fine.

It's very difficult when someone disagrees with the manner in which you discuss things, aye.

The manner of the discussion depends on your point of view.

If you support (by working there you are supporting the regime) a country that allows torture, persecution and violent death you want the discussion to be carried out with no emotion in a 'sensible' non dramatic manner.

However, the lived reality is not sensible and undramatic. The reality is blood, tears, pain and misery. Torture is not polite it is violent and cruel. Is it possible to use hyperbole when discussing people having the soles of their feet whipped until they confess to a crime they didn't commit and are then publicly beheaded - at 16?

This needs to be discussed in a visceral manner because it is such a desperately cruel and hateful regime.