I'm a hijab wearing Muslim woman, ask me anything!

[hijabijabi]

Happy to answer all questions, but most comfortable with questions about my experiences - I can try to answer questions about Islam but am no expert, and other Muslims may hold different opinions.
I'll only be checking the thread intermittenty, so my answers might not be immediate.

Why do you say in one of your replies that wearing the hijab is obligatory and in another that if you had a daughter she could choose whether to wear the hijab or not?

OP,

Crystal, no. I didn't see it as wrong before. It wasn't so much that my views on homosexuality changed but that my whole perspective changed and that had implications for how I saw homosexuality. If you believe the world in random then anything consensual between adults is fine. If you believe the world was made according to a particular order, then that has other implications

Hmm, I think you should be a politician with an answer like this 😭😭😭 Did the fact that Muslims ‘don’t enter into homosexual relationships’ (your words) put you off choosing becoming a Muslim or was it not something that bothered you?

I think saying that Muslims should not allow ‘homosexual relationships’ but also saying that you respect everyone’s choices is disingenuous and unkind. You have literally just commented about how times have changed with regard to an aged Mohammad having sex with a child so why can’t more Muslims views on homosexuality change too?

Im glad that not all Muslims believe that homosexual Muslims mustn’t have sex.

BTW. I’m also curious about exactly why you believe it’s wrong? Is it literally just because you are told it’s wrong and therefore you have to say it is too in order to be a good Muslim or do you genuinely think it’s wrong. If you think it’s wrong why exactly is that ? Is it thought unnatural or a choice or what exactly?

Final question about this.... what do you think of gay Muslims that have sex? Do you think they will be punished or that they aren’t good Muslims?

There is a lot of rudeness on this thread but I too feel exasperated. I have to be honest about my own experiences and I totally support what pp said about if you come from Iran or Saudi, you didn't have a choice and may well crave the freedom and choices western women have. It's a very different thing to cover up in a situation where you can choose, I know that, I lived in Saudi. It's quite another to be a woman in Sudan or Pakistan (I worked in Lahore) where you are utterly and totally invisible and laughed at for even trying to become educated.
I have huge experience of working with Muslims, mainly Gulf and Pakistani people and, increasingly British people. The British people are often shocked by the "liberal" attitudes displayed in the Gulf and often push off to Saudi pretty quickly.
I don't mind what people believe but I do care when I see women wearing what can be a sign of terrible oppression and abuse as a message to other women to be devout or to hide from the racists. And that is something Gulf women never do. They don't give a shit what I wear it what I think and love my home country, even though it is not their faith. Tolerance personified.

"No, I wouldn't think that was acceptable now, as a 13 year old today is still a child emotionally. They weren't back then."

Um... what?

How do female Muslims reconcile themselves to the fact that there needs to be a chapter of the Quran dedicated to all things related to “The Women” and how to deal with them?

For instance, how to deal with disobedience (ie shun them from your bed in the first instance but, if all else fails, you can physically beat them as long as you don’t leave marks) Inheritance rights are that women are entitled to only a fraction of that of their male counterparts. A woman’s legal testimony is worth only a quarter of that of a male - so for this reason, there must be 4 witnesses to a rape for a conviction to even be taken seriously. A man can have 4 wives, as long as he treats them all fairly of course .

Does any if this actually appeal to you and on what level?

Do you think Islam was conceived with any concept of women as remotely equal?

I don’t think Christianity or Judaism are much better, by the way, in this respect. But in Islam, you have much of the misogyny laid out in black and white, all in one handy chapter. How blatant does it need to be?

In my 20s I spent time teaching English in a remote area of Northern Pakistan. Women are rarely visible on the streets, but if they are they are in groups or with a male escort and always wearing the “shuttlecock burqa” like this picture.

If you want to travel on a bus you have to buy 2 seats to ensure you will not be next to a man. Also keep to the rear if the bus so that you are less visible to forward-facing male passengers.

As a burqa-wearing woman I felt totally invisible and on the periphery of society / human interaction / existence. It is hot, stifling and claustrophobic in any weather. Your hair is permanently greasy from being covered. Your skin is bad from sweat and lack of exposure. The main thing is that you feel unbalanced, vulnerable and disorientated in the street because you can only see straight ahead and your sideways peripheral vision is blocked. You have to turn your head to see sideways. It’s hazardous to cross the road, let alone drive (if you are even permitted to). Of course, there is the added benefit that this headgear makes women more “virtuous” because they cannot glance around at other men without turning their heads and being obvious about it.

Does anyone actually believe that these women feel closer to God?

Vashna Sounds awful, how do they keep their children safe if hey can’t properly keep an eye on them?

vashna I visited the same area and the way the women are treated is horrific. There are both men and women in that area trying to make a stand without risking there lives. This is not from Islam.

@Vashna, shocking and abusive. Justified by religion!

hijabi - It’s not enough to say “this is not Islam”. Unfortunately this is how Islam translates into society and this is “real Islam” for for billions of people who have no choice. Religion is real life, not a set of texts. Whatever the true message of Islam - this is how it is interpreted and this is the true reality of how it manifests. Not just in Pakistan, but across huge swathes of the globe.

immigrant it's difficult to answer your questions about Muhammad (peace be upon him) as you have a completely different idea about who he is. If I believed he was an evil, woman hating paedophile I wouldn't take his life as an example.
You seem to feel really passionately about this subject, and I think it might be worth your while to spend some time trying to find out how Muslims see him. Otherwise, it's going to be difficult for practising Muslims to engage with what you are saying.

I mentioned this book before:

www.amazon.co.uk/Muhammad-Prophet-Time-Karen-Armstrong/dp/0061155772/ref=asap_bc?tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8

If you prefer audio, or have a bit more time, this website do good free courses about Islam, including this one about the life of Muhammad, and another that follows on from it:

seekershub.org/home/courses/PGMDG10/

Failing all that, you could watch 'The Message' - you can get the full film on youtube. It's not made by Muslims but the account of gives of Muhammad (peace be upon hims) life is very close to the account accepted by Muslims.

What about Vashna's point? How can you keep saying "this isn't Islam" when it clearly is for millions of people??

Vashna, there are appalling these happening all over the world, in Muslim and non-Muslim countries. If the interpretation is wrong, we need to correct it.
The people I met there had a strong faith and were using this to challenge the practises that were clearly unIslamic.

Can I ask because you haven’t answered it. Maybe if you have it wasn’t clear to me and someone else can point out. Why are you going to tell any girls you may have that wearing hijab is obligatory if it’s also a choice? Surely you would teach them that some women choose to wear it but they don’t have to and it’s entirely up to them.

Again hijabi, it’s not enough to say there are appalling things happening all over the world. This is deflection.
There is too much abuse (particularly if women) going in in the world under the name of Islam. Islam underpins these societies and us used to justify medieval, abhorrent practises that simply wouldn’t be acceptable otherwise. It’s no good saying “it shouldn’t be” - it is.

Many women fought for many years in this country for equal rights and legal protection against male violence. I often think about how far we've come as women in the UK, then I walk past my local primary school and see little girls in hijabs and I worry about their freedoms.

Agreed. And as I said, many women from the really devout countries are bewildered as to why women who have the freedom preach and judge other women. I am sorry but I rarely meet a liberal British Muslim.

quack I've explained upthread the difference between personal obigations (such a prayer) and obligations that are enforced by society (such as the collection of zakat - money for the poor). As I see hijab as a personal obligation that's what I would teach my daughter, but I wouldn't force her.

hijab - I was brought up in a devoutly Catholic region where few questioned their faith.

Religion is not a set of static, abstract texts. Religion lives and breathes within us. It can’t exist otherwise. So the real “truth” of any religion has to be the way it manifests in society. Is it a force for the greater good or not?

Many, many negative things have been done in the name of Christianity / Catholicism and it’s all too easy to see how religion engenders war, subjugation and hypocrisy. For instance, if Eve was created out of Adam’s rib, right there is the notion of women as secondary or “other.” Mary gave birth to Jesus but, of course, it was an “immaculate conception” - right there we have the seed of anxiety around the importance women’s virginity and all the associated behaviours and social structures around repressing female sexuality.

At what point do the negatives of a religion outweigh the positives?

I personally couldn’t subscribe to the religion I was born into once I saw the hypocrisy inherent in it. Faith should not blind you to humanity and reality. Too much suffering has taken place in the name of Christianity. Peace and truth yes, possibly, but at what cost? War, hypocrisy, slavery, abuse? Some would say this is not the message of Christianity, but the fact is it still happened in its name.

Can it be sheer coincidence that the countries in which women suffer most repression are predominantly Muslim regimes? How can you say, “but this is not Islam?” Have all the Islamic governments, mosques, institutions and Muslims over all the centuries all been interpreting it wrongly then? That’s a very prolonged set of errors by any standard. At what point do you think they’ll wake up and see the light or see the hypocrisy? Why does it seem impossible for the message of Islam to translate itself into a fair, open and enlightened society? Has there EVER been a free, peaceful Muslim society where women are not repressed and treated as second class citizens? Is it all “cultural coincidence” or do you think It might have something to do with the message inherent in the religion itself?

Could you answer my question please op

To me an obligation is what you have to do, not an option.

Vashna articulates perfectly my views.

Sorry quack you already raised my point.

Excellent points, Vashna.

hijabijabi See I don’t get it. You would teach her that it’s her own choice but also that it’s her personal obligation to wear one. Doesn’t that contradict one another.