NHS bans transwomen from female space

Well indeed.

I know that's the consensus here, I just thought the experience bit was off because "experience" was what made them try to NOT put trans women with the men

Good job no woman was ever born trans….. and IW ain’t a woman in any way shape or form.

This is a terrible argument regarding ANY rape in prison

So why were trans orgs not campaigning for third space prisons……

And experience of this experiment on women and the women harmed through it was what drove women to fight through the courts for years to get their legal protections in law confirmed.

It's not a case of if the poor little men can't be with the women they have to go in with the nasty mean men, is it? It's a case via the guidance as in the NHS England decision here in the OP, that additional spaces will have to be provided.

Which is a damned sight more care and consideration than the political activist lobby ever permitted women. What's with those double standards?

Minorities very rarely campaign for their own segregation. It wasn't black people's idea to have separate water fountains

really? That’s where you’re going with this? In that case TW should be kept definitely in the male prison estate. In general pop. Wouldn’t want them to be segregated now would we?

I suspect some people might not want to have the "new single-sex NHS guidelines discussion" - can I suggest that you start a different discussion thread please to avoid this one being taken over after the work that @LadyHelenaThistle has put into it? Thanks!

Just in case this is needed:

https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/privacy-dignity-and-safety-in-hospital-accommodation/

from this document, this stood out to me:

When the use of mixed-sex accommodation is unavoidable, every effort should be made to provide accommodation that meets the requirements of this guidance as soon as possible. Until that time, staff must take extra care to ensure privacy and dignity, particularly where patients are cared for on beds or trolleys, even when they do not stay overnight.
In every instance, the patient, their relatives and their carers should be informed of:
• the reasons why patients of different sexes are being accommodated together
• what is being done to address the situation and the expected timeline for resolving it
Patients, their relatives and their carers should be kept updated regularly and these conversations should be clearly recorded in the patient’s record.

[my bold]

Is this new, does anyone know?

Any vulnerable person should have a provision in prison that protects them from rape. There are many different groups of male prisoners that are subjected to rape and that should be prevented as much as possible.

It was never appropriate to put male inmates in female prisons. No matter what those male prisoners ‘experience’ was. And if one group of male inmates were put in female prisons for safety, then other groups of male prisoners who needed similar protection should have been.

The same with hospitals.

It should go without saying that I believed trans women were "men in dresses", I would not be typing any of this. All women deserve to be kept safe from men.

Aaaaaand you couldn't help but jump the shark could you

i mesn I suppose you could be a bit more hyperbolic and insulting to black ppl who suffered hugely because of segregation but you know you'd struggle too.....

Exactly, and as TW are men, they need to go into male prison so women can be safe. Glad you agree.

Regarding men's prisons - the male prison estate is well versed in looking after prisoners who cannot be in the general prison population there are VIP wings for exactly this issue.

As others have said - not a problem for women to solve.

NONE of this about transwomen is for women to solve - women are entitled to their own spaces, services, sports, etc., women are not validation tools, safety shields or collateral damage. The problem is NOT of women's making and not women's responsibility to provide a solution.

All ICBs [Integrated Care Boards] should have a named executive board lead responsible for ensuring the delivery of same-sex accommodation in a way that promotes privacy, dignity and safety for all patients.

This named executive board lead should: [inter alia ...]

• ensure that there is a clear understanding of performance and risk at board level and that relevant actions have clear accountability within the executive team

This might come as an unpleasant surprise to some senior board members!
When are we going to start holding them to account? (thinking about the current tribunal thread)

@TwoLoonsAndASprout @BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn

Is it true that Annex B has been completely removed, do you know? I haven't seen it, but although I think I've seen all the published documents from today, I may have missed one. Thanks.

It was always going to apply to both sexes. That's why the act is called the Equality Act 2010.

It does look that way, but I’m reserving judgment until I’ve triple checked everything!

Hallelujah! 🙏

What a nutter, maybe they could put Stupid Idiot on his headstone if he does die.

@AngleofRepose ‘Be aware that the NHS' next excuse may well be "it's too expensive to provide this, we are doing the best we can, give us more money."’

Then the default is everyone goes to the service, ward or whatever corresponding with their biological sex. Like everyone else has to do. Demanding you have access to accommodation for the opposite biological sex is not an option.

Mind you, I suppose if it gets you a private room, the demand might increase as everyone might feeling a bit trans in their water. Well, on their chart for a hospital admission anyway. A man who says he is trans, is the same as any other man who says he is trans.