NHS bans transwomen from female space

And how about men with erectile dysfunction? Should they too be given dispensation to use females' single sex spaces?

My answer, obviously, is no, because rape is not the only possible form of sexual assault – and I gather that men who can't get it up to commit rape become more violent when their dysfunction becomes obvious, because of shame and anger as well as the desire to take power and to subjugate.

Indeed. Though I doubt any of us believe for a moment that he'd really martyr himself for the cause.

It's nice that a degree of sanity is returning. To see how far we've fallen, here is a discussion in parliament from 1995 where surprise was expressed about the spread of mixed-sex wards, and that a right to be have single sex treatment wasn't automatically enshrined in law.

"We should ask when and why mixed-sex wards were allowed to develop. After all, before the war, when health and hospitals were meagrely financed compared with today, mixed-sex wards would have been unthinkable"

publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld199495/ldhansrd/vo950118/text/50118-07.htm

It would also be legally difficult to tell somebody that their right to use a particular facility depended on them being castrated and this is supported by various ECtHR judgements.. If it were ever possible to make that distinction, that ship has sailed - and that is not women's problem to solve.

I think this is the stance taken by Christian Scientists about eg blood transfusions. It's their right to refuse treatment to which they have a religious objection; it is also Willoughby's right to refuse treatment with which his belief is in conflict.

Like them, he can probably still go to the dentist without intolerable mental conflict.

But this wouldn't be the case of a minority campaigning for their own segregation.

The law is clear that men cannot go into women's spaces now because it either isn't safe, as in the case of prisons and toilets, isn't fair, as in the case of sports, or just isn't appropriate, rape shelters etc.

If, as you state transwomen would not be safe in mens prisons and toilets, then they would be campaigning for their own SAFETY.

Long overdue. Fingers crossed it brings in safeguarding women into the everyday workings of the NHS, prisons, schools, crisis centres, and sports. Basically everywhere women's safety could be undermined by the presence of men

Hampstead ponds too.....

I'm really hoping this guidance influences private hospitals too. A family member works in a mental health hospital where a trans identifying woman in staying on a men's forensic ward and the thought of what could go wrong makes me so worried and angry

When I was put for a week into a mixed-sex ward in Newham Hospital fifteen years ago neither I nor my brother who visited me was told why I was put into a mixed-sex rather than a single-sex ward, and nothing whatever was done to "resolve" the situation, so whilst the policy is not new (it would have been automatic before the 1980s: when I was in hospital for surgery then the wards were definitely men's and women's, and did not get mixed) it has recently reverted to a previous and more desirable state.

Me too
Seems like TP might deny themselves Nhs treatment! Surely not?
IW- a 'woman born trans' but 'lived' as a man for quite a while then. Hmm

Single rooms used to be allocated according to clinical need. That was always the priority. Not 'choice'

How on earth is being trans, with all the rights of any other person in the country, comparable to being Jewish during the Holocaust in Europe, with no rights of any sort? I really can't get my head round that.

It just shows how off the scale self absorbed and delusional they are.

That’s a completely false equivalence.

You’ve noticed, I’m sure, that many feminists have spend decades campaigning for single sex spaces for women. Asking for segregation. Because we know it makes us safer.

You say that TW aren’t safe in the male estate. So they can campaign for their own space so that they can be safe (exactly as women have done).

They can either do that, or they can go into a male prison. There aren’t any other options available, because the only other option is women’s prisons and obviously male people cannot be housed in prisons for female people.

Then the default is everyone goes to the service, ward or whatever corresponding with their biological sex.

Yes, I do agree that this is how it should be in Normal World. Let's hope this really is a corner turned.

No. This is only about spaces (sleeping and changing), not behaviour. That is already covered under rules on consent and laws on assault.

What rules in NHS Scotland prevented him from treating women who had specifically asked for a female doctor and why was he allowed to ignore them?

I don't think sex segregation is feminist. It reinforces the idea that men are inherently violent and that women are inherently vulnerable. You've noticed, I'm sure, that the countries with the strictest sex segregation are also often the ones with the fewest women's rights. But I'll repeat myself and say once again that I don't view trans women as a type of men so it's beside the point.

Women's spaces are essential and should be open for all women, including trans women.

There's nothing more feminist than wanting to be safe.

Men are inherently dangerous as a sex class in a way that women aren't, yes. The stats bear that out. Leaving aside the violence, women have the right to privacy and dignity away from men, regardless of how those men present themselves to the world.

Methinks the title of this thread should be “NHS bans males from female spaces”

Yes there is, being equal.

Everyone deserves to be safe.

Absolutely - everyone should be safe. Women are less safe when men are in their spaces however - which is why decent men who know , recognise and respect that keep away.

Perhaps the explosion of ‘prison onset gender dysphoria’ will subside now that male sex offenders can’t identify themselves into the female prison estate.

Given a trans man being raped in a male facility is the only recorded attack involving anyone trans in a hospital - that is absolutely appropriate.

Just to pick up one point here - are male medical staff not decent? We don't have single sex facilities in the NHS - we have single sex groups of patients.