NHS bans transwomen from female space

“A woman born trans”

I have just given myself an eyeball hernia.

i hope they prioritise clinical need. I remember reading a news story on here a few years ago about a transplant surgeon who went to check on their patient and was horrified to find them on the main ward because the private room was occupied by a trans person. Their transplant patient could literally die if they got an infection and were incredibly susceptible - but no, private room allocated on the basis of feelz rather than clinical need.

Bloody hell, about time!

Would this have an impact on the settlement of the many (oh so many) tribunals in the pipeline? Surely it rather undercuts most of the arguments put forward?

So despite all the wailing, all the seething, all incoherence, all the threats and bullying, ... one by one all our institutions are beginning to follow the law.

Who'd have thought it.

Oh, well.

Matches with the women who are unable to access screening, medical appointments and safe hospital admission due to their being mixed sex by coercion then, doesn't it?

Absolute plonkers

Great news! See? It’s not actually that hard to come up with the guidelines is it? Now to put in practice. I daresay there will be some trying to wriggle their way around this as with other guidelines. God alone knows why though.

I know there have been a number of responses to this, but I'm going back to your original post, JT1999, to say that I agree that the welfare and safety of transwomen in prisons is important.
As is/should be the welfare and safety of all prisoners.
I feel strongly that their punishment is deprivation of liberty, not living in fear and in squalor. But that's just me..

The FWS/Prisons case in Scotland in June last- sorry I don't have the full reference to it - which ruled that transwomen must not be accommodated in women's prisons, referred to the fact that the prison service already has experience of dealing with transwomen in men's prisons, therefore sending a transwoman to a men's prison was not placing him in danger because of his identity.

So I think you are right to have some concern about the safety of transwomen in men's prisons, but not only is it not our problem, as multiple posters have said, and which you agree with, but it is a problem that the prison service is aware of and is - hopefully - doing something about.

Lady Ross who ruled in the FWS/Prisons case was confident that transwomen in men's prisons are already given appropriate protection.

Please could you give me a heads up about where to find this on reddit? By PM if you prefer. Thanks

Just reposting here so it's all in one place, because my posts are all over the place!

There are three documents:

Thanks to
@LadyHelenaThistle

https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/guidance-to-support-nhs-organisations-in-the-provision-of-single-sex-services-and-facilities

Also: NHS England has published:

• Privacy, dignity and safety in hospital accommodation – revised guidance on same sex accommodation for patients
• Guidance on NHS staff facilities – new guidance on the provision and use of NHS staff facilities

Transgender UK, I think the holocaust comment was on the recent thread about “cis people not getting it” (or something to that effect), and the rapist comment was on a thread whinging about JKR and Harry Potter being everywhere.

We’re lucky to have the FWS and SC ruling. Legislation in Australia shows how it could easily be the other way.

Excellent, finally, this should have happened 18 months ago.

The dramatics over 'holocausts' - ffs, this political lobby were AND ARE perfectly delighted that women should be excluded, have to refuse medical care if not able to access due to men identifying as women, that was all absolutely fine and they would like that to continue please. No one wrote into any policy that those women HAD to be provided with safe alternative third provisions, so frankly my heart fails to bleed.

And there's always the hairsplitting... no, not with full excision of penis and extensive cosmetic surgery, not with amazing amounts of wrong sex hormones, not when a pig walks backwards on a Tuesday playing the banjo, there are no circumstances in which women's single sex provisions should be made to come second to a man. Those men will be absolutely fine in third spaces. The answers for those men can never include removing single sex provision for women. That has to remain untouched, other answers and provisions have to be made that do not involve women's resources.

And I could ask why that's so hard to comprehend, but the bottom line is it's not about provision or safety at all, it's about getting to the non consenting women and having dominance over them. The idea that women are just a prize to be awarded to a man who tries hard enough. The better question would be why are so many absolutely certain that one man should be valued as so very much more important than every woman in the women's space?

It’s ridiculous it’s taken this long, but welcome news.

mentioned up thread tough about how some had medical records changed to say F rather than M, will these be rectified? Surely there’s an audit trail?

Just catching up and this is also great news.

”'NHS England leaders need to make clear that there will be no more nurses disciplined for calling a man "he", as Jennifer Melle was.”

This is just another crumbling of the theory that men can be women. Because if male rapists are not being called ‘she’, if court can decide if a male people can have female language used for them in court, if female people now will not be negatively impacted if they mistakenly correctly sex a person, this demand that it is ‘respectful’ to use female language for a male person is really looking very much like it is an empty claim.

No male is a female person and no female person should ever have been coerced in any way, even just emotionally, to use female language for any male person.

Having experience with trans women in men's prisons is the reason why they don't put them there. Because they famously get raped and murdered, "V-coding" and all that. So even if you think trans women shouldn't be in women's prisons, they cannot put them with the men. They literally stopped doing that because of what happens if they do.

Hahaha we’ve been on the exact same threads this afternoon

Mate, they do put them there, in England. And Scotland now as well. The policy was changed in England about 4 years ago. The vast majority of men who identify as women are in the male estate.

Then the onus is on trans women (not my words but used for continuity here) not to commit crimes sufficiently serious as to carry a custodial sentence.

Still not women's problem to solve or even care about. We're not the ones doing the raping.

This sounds like a great discussion for a new thread. Perhaps you'd like to start one, and we can join you there?

ed,, spelling

I also bring you

These people are segregationists, and this situation requires the moral urgency which racial segregation in the US demanded

The hyperbole and entitlement is off the scale.

Thanks to the lobbying of groups such as Keep Prisons Single Sex, the policy was changed in England under the Tories, about 4 years ago. Prior to that there was a push for trans identified males to be housed in the female estate.

I got asked my pronouns today 🙄

I hope you did exactly that face!