Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #68

I haven't seen their defence but, if they have said anything like this, I would have asked them if they were really sure they wanted to say that if I was advising them.

Dr S Redvers is claiming a protected belief of evidence based medicine. The NHS response is that integrity evidence-based medicine is just an opinion, not cogent or coherent and not relevant to a weighty or substantial aspect of human life and behaviour.

Wow! That's going to be a corker giving us more information on what was really happening at at Sam Hall's GP practice.

Stuart Fraser doesn't have a background in nursing but is from customer services which could cover a multitude of sins. He had only been an RCN rep for a couple of years when Sandie contacted him. He immediately jumped to the conclusion that Sandie was in the wrong on a disciplinary for misgendering & harassing Upton. His aim was just to mitigate any punishment hence his throwaway attitude that Sandie should regard her suspension as a holiday. He was so captured by Genderism that he failed to appreciate that it was his member who had been harassed by finding a man in the female changing room.

This particularly tribunal is/may be crucial to all relevant and future cases because those earning the ‘big bucks’ are going to have to justify their decisions. So much is now out in the open with DN’s winning, one appeal ongoing and the RCN to be decided.The focus will be away from SP and DU’s original confrontation per say but should be on the decision making processes and their implications/implementations for patients and medical staff and hospital estates. It should be solely around the individuals named, their decisions and subsequent implementation into the working practices of the institutions employing them and the professional and legal advice relied upon. Was it legal? Time they stood up to be counted and hopefully admit they simply got it wrong, some of it at least, and simply apologise, agree to put it right, no delaying tactics and definitely no NDA’s. Back to DU, wasn’t he insistent on SP writing an apology as part of her censure and accepting his right into women’s sss, that should have been a red flag to the RCN that all was not as it seemed.

It's part of the second first-instance tribunal against NHS Fife employees, based on facts that emerged during the first first-instance tribunal against NHS Fife and employees. I don't think we have a firm date yet. Keep your 2027 diary open - it should be another humdinger.

If SF had recorded that SP had complained that "a transwoman" was in the changing room, or "Dr Upton", with an explanation that her objection was that DrU was a transwoman but she believed that DrU was biologically male, or any other neutral position, I'd concede. But he changed her statement to reflect his/RCN's values.

yes, especially since all the indications are that Dr Upton is what I'd call a Bog Standard Basic (Straight) Bloke.

People with differences in sexual development have nothing to do with this situation under discussion whatsoever so hopefully we've heard plenty about that already, and will hear no more.

Thank you. I’ll do some routine maintenance on the popcorn conveyor belt so that it’s good to go.

Thank you! Interesting.

It does seem a little odd that the RCN are both modifying SPs words to sanatise them in line with the ideology adopted by their management team (thereby making SP's compliant less clear) whilst at the same time claiming that the words SP used did not make clear that she was exercising her legal protection of the belief that biological sex is binary.

Be careful what you wish for, we could have another full afternoon of the differences in sex development again, which is not at all relevant to the proceedings. 😀

Another case to watch
[https://x.com/tribunaltweets/status/2107802375343739013?s=20]

I went to the OP to refresh my memory and SP has made a wee list and NC will check it twice. They're going to find out who's naughty and nice.

"Additional legal claims have been raised. Sandie Peggie is taking action against three senior managers who were witnesses in the first Employment Tribunal - Dr Kate Searle, Dr Maggie Currer and Esther Davidson, against Carol Potter, the chief executive of NHS Fife, for victimisation, against NHS Fife for discrimination, and against its director of people and culture David Miller for harassment. "

Good point people. I shouldn't have even engaged.

very much looking forward to Dr Kate Searle taking us through her decision making and communications relating to that.

When are we expecting to hear from Kate Searle? I'm only able to dip in and out of these tribunals but do love to say some of the absolute ridiculous verbal gymnastics from some of these TRA's

speaking of those who enabled Dr Upton to think Dr Upton was entitled to use the female locker room to get changed, I'm very much looking forward to Dr Kate Searle taking us through her decision making and communications relating to that.

Factually, DU is a male, who has no right to ever be in a female changing room, or for that matter, in any other female space.

I can feel a doom loop coming our way, tunnocks available for not engaging i have eaten two myself.

Whatever your "lens", Doctor Upton is male. This is a measurable, and observable, fact. The sooner people who have adopted trans identities get to grips with the reality of their sex the easier their lives would be. They would still have employment and other protections, and they would still be free to negotiate terms of personal reference with their nearest and dearest. What they cannot expect to do is to gas-light or coerce others into validating their own personal belief system.

The RCN are not in the position to enforce pronoun use on their members. That is not its role, or it certainly should not be.

SP’s complaint was doctored by SF. The very reason she was complaining at all was because there was a man interfering with women’s sense of safety, dignity and comfort by hanging out the women’s changing room. What seemed to be a very vindictive, nasty man, who engaged in what one might call a vendetta against SP for not pretending he was a type of woman. And did not (could not) hide her distress just to satisfy his sense of entitlement. Just my opinion, of course. And he did have partners in crime, so to speak.

A man who stated publicly he would ignore, and transgress, the clear wishes of a woman if she said she did not want to be treated by a man if there was a woman available. So, a man that women would be quite right to be wary of, I think.

Upton was not a member of the RCN. RCN should have been concerned about representing and supporting their member Sandie not pandering to a non member

Yes, that’s something!