Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #68

All that incoherent twaddle about women in gyms is ridiculous and tragic.

However, has anybody else noticed that some young people seem to believe that there's little (if any) difference in physical strength between women and men?

I actually had a conversation with a 22 year old relative about Olympic records, and I had to quote the teenage boys runners against elite women runners stats. She was extremely surprised.

Digging a bit, it turns out she is not an outlier.

I blame it on the current fashion for stupid superhero films and video games, and the unrealistic flghts where 5'6" women consistently beat the crap out of hulking 6'4" blokes.

Said relative has never done any competitive sports. DD and DN on the othe hand do, so they just went 'duh' at me. Thankfully.

But it is males with a trans identity who claim they unsafe in male spaces. So if we make everything mixed sex, how will that help them? They will be in the spaces either the very males they are scared of?

Now put it into a privacy and dignity argument why is the gay woman checking you out any different to the man?

You can't think of any difference between a gay woman and a man?

This is a good reminder of the kind of homophobia we are fighting.

It's also quite a homophobic post. Lesbians go to the gym to train. Not to spend their time checking out other women nor to try and emulate men.

OMFG yeah all we want in life is to be checked out - gotta be sexy for the patriarchy

Balderdash! I'm 80 and have never had time or desire in my busy life to waste it "training like men in the gym". I'm old and increasingly less mobile and I do not want to encounter men, however long their hair or spinny their skirts, in the single-sex spaces, services and sports the law entitles me to expect.

As for your nonsense about there being no difference between men and women, you're talking to someone who needed her father's signature to open her first bank account and her husband's if she wanted to take out a hire purchase agreement. That was the inequality I fought against, whilst protecting the rights women had already won.

Because I don’t see my worth in terms of sexual attractiveness- just for starters- or are you just being goady?

He does identify as being much younger than he is. So it's quite possible Boily.

Has Jonathan joined the chat?

Oh give over. What a load of tosh!
Train like men in the gym. Lol!

When woman fight for equality, crash the glass ceiling and train like men in the gym arguments like this just make us seem weak. If we as woman want equality that means in every aspect of life it’s time we dropped man vs woman and just call us all human. The need for “privacy” and “dignity” between man and woman largely stem from religion which is dated in the modern world. Think of it like this - your wearing a bikini because you want to show off that hard earned gym body - yes that guy over there is checking you out but so is the girl three sun beds away the only difference is she is also wondering if your gay and would be interested. Now put it into a privacy and dignity argument why is the gay woman checking you out any different to the man? I don’t have the toned abs for the bikini but I do have the gym honed strength to over power a lot of woman and men from a safety stand point I could also be a threat. Let that sink in then argue that it’s the XY who is the only threat in 2026 - times have changed let’s move with them.

Maybe an insurance thing with supermarkets. A policy that says do not intervene yourself but report is less risk of payout for injury? Less likely to lead to argument in court for injuries/wrongful interventions by untrained staff. I

I was seeing a parallel as I think the CS would not want a policy that left them open to legal cases and this policy advice protects from that.

I don''t like the 'don't get involved' approach for either. Deterrents and training might be better or at least should be alongside.

I do see that in CS example it's about colleagues with an on-going relationship. So having this in a policy and a trans colleague repeatedly ignoring might lead to effective social pressure.

Don’t expect an answer as I’ve asked this poster the same question.

The guidance actually follows good safeguarding practice and protects transmen based on their sex, particularly the NHS guidance - but that is an inconvenient fact.

And again for this one. Although at 35 pages I think I'd better save it until later and instead get off my arse and go and do stuff first!

Just catching up.

Thank you for the link x

I think supermarkets are more concerned about shoplifters physically attacking their staff if challenged than suing them.

You would hope that would be a lower risk among staff in a civil service office.

A thread was started AFAIK, but got deleted….

Thread derailer is back I see. Quite why L does not start their own thread about this is beyond me.

A TIF was raped repeatedly within hours of being put in a male psych ward. By your logic, she was in the right place wasn’t she? So why do you believe these men targeted her? Surely they knew she was a man? Don’t you think she els have been safer in the female ward?

Well in theory it should work much better. Shoplifters are not employees of the shop so cannot be disciplined. But CS employees who are breaking the written workplace rules can be reminded of them and if they continue to break them can be disciplined. And if managers fail to act the employees complaining can take out a grievance.
Plenty more avenues open to staff……….in theory

Thank you.
Is this a bit like the advice by big retailers to staff about challenging shoplifters. Yes it's against the law. But report it and don't challenge them.
I assume that the CS and supermarkets both want to avoid being sued by the lawbreakers and see this advice as a safer option. Except it does not work that well for shops or their workers and I assume it also will not work that well for civil servants?

Make it make sense

It doesn't and it never will. In the situations where sex matters it matters because male and female humans have different bodies. We don't split some services and activities because of interests or feelings, they are split for safety, dignity, privacy and fairness related to the differences in body type and experiences arising from those different body types.

Those differences are coded into every cell of the body and no amount of hormone popping, surgery or wishing really, really hard will turn a body of one type into the other type.

Because it's all about the men. Young autistic girls and women are only ever mentioned when it is useful for them to become props for the men trying to get into women's spaces.

All of the teenage girls I know who identified as trans (including DD) continued to use the Ladies. Some use unisex and share websites/apps to identify suitable provision. Fortunately almost all of the teens have now outgrown identifying as male - and yes their mental health has improved dramatically as a result.

I’m baffled as to why some activists think that a strapping 6’ tall muscular man in his 40s identifying as a woman is in grave danger in the Gents and needs to shelter behind an octogenarian woman in the Ladies but a 13 year old 5’ 3” autistic girl will be absolutely fine in there if she wears a baggy T-shirt. Make it make sense.

Interesting. Coke doesn't seem to be popular around here. Weed everywhere, glue no longer fashionable, hard drugs fairly out of sight these days.

I've never noticed a transman in the gents, and apart from some extraordinarily messy men who don't bother to clean up after themselves there's rarely any problem.