All defendants in the Pelicot case found guilty

I know that what is called by the industry 'child pornography' is child abuse. It's like treading on egg shells round here! My point was not what we call specific types of paedophilia but that these ordinary men also went in for porn about the abuse of children, upskirting, drugging their own wives (in one case), and various other sex offences. In other words, they had form and had not been picked up until now. Which means there are a lot of other men out there who are just like these men, going about their daily lives. It's entirely true that women don't know how much some men hate women. It is the oldest hatred, so old it's seen as 'normal'.

I've been posting about this on another thread -
Page 9 | Gisele Pelicot defendants described | Mumsnet
I completely agree about the duty of lawyers to defend their clients as strongly as they can. Somebody has to defend even the worst monsters, and they are trained to do their best. Without that, there would be no fair trials.

The defence barrister who said 'There is rape, and there is rape' - Guillaume De Palma - has since said that he was specifically addressing this to the judges, making the point that in French law, there has to be intent, whereas in public opinion there does not, and that he was only arguing his client's innocence on this point of law. I think this may be a case of something sounding indefensible when taken out of context, and I don't think it reflects what he personally believes.

However, the outside-the-courtroom behaviour of at least three others has been shocking: Nadia El Bouroumi who has been posting controversial things on TikTok and generally seems to enjoy 'stirring'; Émile-Henri Biscarrat spoke strongly, and I think inappropriately, in favour of retaining intent in the definition of rape immediately after sentencing, and most shockingly Christophe Bruschi jeered and insulted the protesters outside the court as his client walked free because of time served.

I think they should be held to account for what they did and said outside the courtroom.

People being interviewed I've said that either everyone knows one of them, or knows someone who does.

It's unbelievably bad.

What do you mean?

So gisele can't actually relax at all because justice still hasn't been done!

It's hard to believe that 20 men are that hard to identify. I'd love to know their jobs.

I hope they spend the rest of their miserable lives looking over their shoulders.

Yes, I know. Why did I put inverted commas round it?

While the sentences are shorter than they should be, I have little doubt that had this occurred in the UK they would have been shorter still… and they would have been let out after less than half.

It is truly horrifying. I honestly can't imagine how these men came to be so awful. I hope they all die in prison; the ages of some of them there's a good chance. What an incredible woman, and she has women the world over beside her.

I hope the lasting legacy of Gisele’s bravery is the people now put overwhelming pressure on the government to overhaul the laws around consent.

It was something that I began to understand was a significant issue when I started reading about the young women protesting about the consent laws in universities about them. It was sandwiched in with the change of the age of consent finally after the young tween aged girl was raped in a playground but I believe the adult male rapist argued that ‘she consented’!

And around the same time the child victims of the decreased age of consent from the 70s and 80s who were preyed upon by powerful men started to speak out and be taken notice of. Finally.

The concept of consent needs an overhaul perhaps in French law. And there needs to be heavier punishments available.

I absolutely agree all defendants, no matter how heinous the alleged offence are entitled to decent legal representation @WarmingClothesontheRadiator, my shock here is not lawyers using the defence strategy they adopted but the fact the definition of rape in French law is so poorly worded they were able to do so.

Considering the legal definition of rape in France I wonder if anyone has ever been convicted in a “straightforward” drug rape case there? In an interview with one of the French women’s rights groups in the follow-up trial reporting they said the laws were terrible and needed a complete overhaul, for example, there are no specific domestic violence crimes - cases have to be brought under everyday public assault and violence charges.

Her statement.

No words to say how much I admire her.

https://x.com/France24_en/status/1869790147438412065

Like everyone I'm completely disgusted at the husband, but like pp have mentioned , the number of other men who went along with it. Or even if they didn't take part, didn't see anything wrong with the whole scenario ...? FFS

And then pretending they were duped , or that she was in agreement. It's abhorrent and an uncomfortable and horrifying uncovering of how lots of men would and do behave, if a situation presents itself and they think they can get away with it

In order to have justice we must have lawyers who are prepared to represent the most awful of people, and do so properly by using all aspects of the law to argue their case, however unpleasant such arguments and justifications may be. The rapists are the criminals here, not their lawyers.

Yes. 20 men filmed but not identified.

Please don't use the name "child pornography" it is a misnomer. It's images of child abuse.

Should have given them all 19 years then.

What is as horrifying is that many were also accused and found guilty of having child pornography - which rather undermines their defence that they had not intended to rape.

Shockingly, the lawyer for six of the defendants argued they had not raped her because French law defines rape as penetrative sex “using violence, coercion, threat or surprise” (fucking surprise?!!) and none of them had any “intent to rape” as they were “duped” by M. Pelicot, her husband.

There is currently no mention of “consent” in French legislation. He (the fucking husband) was very specific that they all knew she was drugged and unaware. The online chat room communications confirmed this. Others argued as the husband had granted them consent it was ok. Dear god.
There is currently a campaign in France to have consent and drugging offences included in rape legislation.

Absolutely stunned at the spine of steel displayed by this woman; less stunned by the depravity of these men.

20 men yet to be brought to justice?

Those 70 men are not the only convicted rapists in the area either.

The population within that area will include children, who were presumably not approached to participate.

None of the men approached went to the police, even the ones who didnt take part.

Hm, was it a 60km radius?

If so, that's 1.3 million people. Around 650,000 men.

The number of men horrified me.

There are so many factors it's almost impossible to get accurate ideas, but still.

How many would do this if they had the opportunity? Not many would know about the website Pelicot used. So that number would be presumably higher in the populace.

But how many were enabled and encouraged by the website? How many were encouraged by Pelicot?

Moving statement from Gisele Pelicot.

“It is with deep emotion that I speak to you today. This trial has been a very difficult ordeal. And at this moment, I am thinking first and foremost of my three children, David, Caroline and Florian.

“I’m also thinking of my grandchildren, because they are the future, and it’s also for them that I’ve fought this battle, as well as my daughters-in-law, Aurore and Céline.

“I’m also thinking of all the other families affected by this tragedy. I’m also thinking of the unrecognised victims, whose stories often remain in the shadows. I want you to know that we share the same struggle.

“I would like to express my deepest gratitude to everyone who has supported me throughout this ordeal. Your testimonies have overwhelmed me and given me the strength to come back every day to face those long days of hearings.

“I would also like to thank the Victim Support Association, whose unfailing support has been invaluable.

“To all the journalists who have followed this case from the outset, I wish to express my gratitude for the faithful, respectful and dignified way in which they have reported daily on these hearings.

“Finally, I would like to express my gratitude and esteem to my lawyers for having accompanied me at every stage of this painful journey.

“When I opened the doors of this trial on September 2, I wanted society to be able to take part in the debates that took place. I have never regretted that decision.

“I now have confidence in our ability to collectively grasp a future in which everyone, woman and man, can live in harmony, with mutual respect and understanding.”

Asked afterwards by the press about the verdict handed down a few minutes earlier by the Criminal Court, Mrs Pelicot simply added: “I respect the court and the decision of the verdict.”