Ban on puberty blockers to be made indefinite on experts’ advice

Nobody hates you, everyone is literally trying to do the best thing for you.

I would not call an anorexic fat, even though they REALLY thought it was true.

You are the sex you were born. You can't change it. You have to accept that.

These are the lies and misunderstandings that need to be addressed by the NHS.
This comment was the most down rated - and answered by a complete untruth

We listen when you tell us.

Utter hyperbole. Wow.

Just look at the terrible comments

https://www.reddit.com/r/LabourUK/comments/1hbtwg4/puberty_blockers_for_children_with_gender/

Wes Streeting spoke in parliament about how he'd met people who'd used pb with successful outcomes. Fortunately, he took what was said and politely called it 'lived experience'. Opinions such as these are known otherwise as anecdotal evidence. One or two or ten people's experience, however glowing, is not a substitute for a scientific study involving 100s/1000s.

Hard evidence got supplanted some time ago with lived experience. I don't know why but it started in the US. It allowed this slide into feelz etc and suddenly proper medical safeguarding got thrown out the window.

Just poking around other parts of Reddit to see the reactions to this and stumbled across the Labour UK subreddit. The juxtaposition here says it all really.

So you've been an autistic biological female who started to develop breasts, got a period for the first time and hated the change, the sensory aspect, how it impacted the way that boys and men looked at you? You've been that same girl who is trying to make sense of what teachers in school are saying, through the lens of autistic cognitive and language processing?

No. You haven't.

You've got experience of you.

You're not a 4 year systematic review. You're one person with an opinion. Albeit a valid opinion about yourself. I've got valid opinions about myself. Sometimes I look back and laugh at my younger self for those opinions, sometimes I'm glad that I held true to them. But to claim that we already know the answer on what a trail would find is as laughable as it is wrong. Even if this trial gets off the ground, I wouldn't say I already know what it's going to find. I have an idea, but I don't know. That's why hypotheses get tested. Science isn't just guesswork.

Edited to add: I'm not dismissing your feelings of distress about your body. If you believe you have a gender identity and that yours doesn't match your body, that sounds awful. I can see why that would be completely debilitating and why anyone who feels this way seeks treatment to address it. My lack of belief in gender identity doesn't stop me empathising with how awful this situation must be.

Anyone on here still beleiveing these trials won't be happening because they wouold not be ethical needs to read this response from Genspect which critques the study designs which have already been proposed.

One extract:

"The proposed study designs apparently aim to overcome these difficulties by prescribing puberty blockers to all participants, as though health authorities have not even considered treating gender related distress with the promising non-medicalised approaches identified by the Cass Review. Only one of the three designs includes a control group who would nominally receive no treatment. However, the NHS has pledged to provide psychological support to all study participants so, as discussed further below, even the control group will actually be in receipt of treatment. Under the remaining two designs, all participants will ultimately be prescribed blockers in the course of the study.

Rather than confronting misconceptions about puberty blockers with a robust public health campaign highlighting their harms, these studies are designed to exploit those misconceptions by offering participants access to blockers as a kind of incentive. This speaks to cowardice on the part of health authorities, researchers and politicians. They lack the courage to confront the lies of so called ‘gender affirming care’ head on, by calmly and compassionately explaining to the public that the evidence simply doesn’t support the view that puberty blockers are a safe and effective treatment. Instead, they will medicalise thousands more healthy young people, putting off for another day the need to come clean with the public and admit that the medical profession has made a terrible error in popularising these dangerous interventions."

We need to stop pretending this ban is the end of puberty blockers, taht these studies won't be happening, that ButterflyHatched point was theon out by Cass, and instaed support Genspaxt et al in fighting it.

genspect.org/call-to-action-help-genspect-uk-stop-the-nhs-puberty-blocker-study/

You're seeing the desperation of activists watching their influence over children being removed. The tantrums are epic but responsible adults and parents completely understand what's really happening.

Please clarify:

Are you saying a) it's likely to happen but obviously shouldn't, because murder is not justified or b) that Wes Streeting and Hilary Cass are at fault, so if they get hurt that's their responsibility (not the responsibility of any would be murderer)?

Whichever answer you give, I find your post concerning.

Brilliant

Yes, this is what we need to push for.
Absoulte transparency on these trials, and then challenge to thier legitimacy.

At the momemnt it's all clouded and we're been given what looks like a win with this 'ban', which is good, but also dangerous in that the public (and even many on here it seems) to think 'job done' children are now protected and move on.

Indeed. The best outcome is for the child to decide to accept themselves as the sex they are. Which will certainly not happen if they take puberty blockers and are constantly told that they are the opposite sex but oppressed and vulnerable and everyone hates them and wishes they didn't exist.

I'm not afraid of anything, personally, and I suspect that what would be found is what actually tends to occur, even in the most "successful" transitions. Namely that trans identified people spend their lives totally consumed by 'being trans', and by having to be continually on guard, or aware, that their sex may be identified by other people. Plus having to fight to access the spaces that other groups ( mainly women) want to keep for their own use.

Lots of examples of people who end up detransitioning - even decades later;and of those with deep regret for the surgeries they have undergone. Others for whom the dsyphoric feelings simply shift onto another body part or aspect of self; or who eventually realise and come to terms with the fact they are not the sex they have tried to be.

Others for whom marriages break down under the stress and who are alienated from wider family, including from their own children ( see trans widow experiences)

That's without talking about the physical and damaging side effects of surgery and hormones...on bones, heart, urinary system etc

Look, I agree with you but that is not the way it is going and it's important to see that clearly.

The new clinics are staffed by WPATH clinicians.
Cass left open the possibility of medical pathways being right for some children.
The trials are being planned.
Wes today is saying they need evidence.

You can be as right as you like on here, but we need to see clearly whihc way this is heading next if we want to protect children from continued harm.

Yep, by a load of revolting, exploitative ghouls. The fault lies with the trans ideologues. Only.

@ButterflyHatched do tell us what sort of caterpilla you were before?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5228440-child-safeguarding-win-puberty-blockers-have-been-indefinitely-banned-across-the-entire-of-the-uk-for-off-label-use-precocious-puberty-use-remains?reply=140469670

"I wholeheartedly support letting kids choose whether or not to take it and recording the long-term outcomes of either in detail.
There is no need for a ban to do that. What purpose does a ban serve if it's safe enough to run a trial and safe enough for current patients to continue? "

@ButterflyHatched is probably right here about what will happen, I think that is what the trials will be: kids and parents who want the blockers will sign up for the trial.

They will also be the same kids who are being socially transitioned so puberty is terrifying as it will undo the lie theyve set out on.

And schools and psychologists are still supporting social transition. The school guidance and Cass have not yet stopped that.

there is still a long way to go people.

The fact that they have no way of telling which kids might benefit is just another argument in favour of giving no kids puberty blockers.

I'm reminded of the fabled grandparent who smoked sixty cigarettes a day since they were a toddler and lived to be a ninety. I'm sure such people exist but it's not a lifestyle that should be encouraged.

Torture is a little testerical.

Surely children would be be best "not to have to suffer life time of transphobia" by being helped to come to terms with the fact that they cannot really change sex, and that going along a pathway which suggests they can is not the best one in the end. I mean look at your example........you can hardly be said to be at peace with yourself, or accepting of the fact that you are not female.

And yet record keeping on those cases was suppressed and lost. Weird. It’s as if they didn’t think it worked…

What are you afraid of the trials finding?

Presumably you don't object to the torture element.

Do you consider a trans outcome to always be disastrous?

It would be informative and in the public interest if the nature of these trials was detailed, or certianly out-lined. Whch children? At what point? For how long? Do parents have to sign consent forms etc?