Joe Rogan interview with JD Vance

I know! I just think "illegal immigrants are committing crimes in America and then they go to prison and get their balls cut of " makes Kampala Harris looks kind of based if anything

Castration (and chemical castration using ‘puberty blockers’) has been found to not reduce sexual offending but rather make their attacks much more violent.

We've definitely used AGP on MN before. I wasn't sure if anything had changed back though.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4726257-nick-timothy-in-the-telegraph-on-the-grr?page=1

We have the potential vice president of the US discussing Autogynaephilia in public during and election campaign. I think that means we must be able to talk about how men get sexually aroused by thinking of themselves as women, using women’s spaces, and forcing others to pretend they are women without having to use coy phrases like ‘Malaga airport’!

It’s just occurred to me, as I’m watching the rest of this video, that Rogan has done a better job than professional political journalists of letting viewers get a feel for the personality, beliefs and ideology of the candidates that he’s interviewed.

He chats to them live for over 3 hours each which means they can’t be edited, or get assistance from SPADS, and he doesn’t give them control over the questions so as well as political topics they cover other issues as well.

I felt the same for the Mumsnet interviews this week with the two candidates for the Conservative party leadership, I got a better sense of them as people and whether I’d want to vote for them or not. Whereas with the recent election campaign I felt most of the politicians were robotically on message with repetitive soundbites (even on talk shows) and I didn’t get a decent feeling of what any of them were like as people.

Trying to get to the bottom of Kamala Harris's position on gender identity ideology is hard work based on what people are saying now. There's so much spin and disinformation that anyone will struggle to work out what the facts are.

To get a clearer picture, you have to go back to reporting that's much closer to the events in question:

https://www.washingtonblade.com/2019/11/20/despite-harris-deal-few-surgeries-granted-to-trans-inmates-in-california/

For example:

“I was, as you are rightly pointing out, the attorney general of California for two terms and I had a host of clients that I was obligated to defend and represent and I couldn’t fire my clients, and there are unfortunately situations that occurred where my clients took positions that were contrary to my beliefs,” Harris said.

Harris's beliefs there were that gender reassignment surgery should be open to transwomen in prison. So what did Harris do about the conflict?

“I did it quietly, because I actually disagreed with my client initially, when they had the policy, and so I did it behind the scenes,” Harris told the Los Angeles Blade. “I helped to resolve and change the policy. The issue for me was to make sure the right thing would happen.”

As a result of Harris's changes, the policy became much more open to gender reassignment surgery being available to transwomen in prisons in California:

“I made sure that they changed the policy in the state of California so that every transgender inmate in the prison system would have access to the medical care that they desired and need,” Harris said. “I know it was historic in California, but I believe, actually, it may have been one of the first if not the first in the country where I pushed for that policy in a Department of Corrections.”

This was one consequence:

“Members of the LGBT community, especially those who are transgender, are too often subjected to discrimination and forced to live on the margins of our society,” Harris said at the time. “In a groundbreaking settlement, the California Department of Corrections & Rehabilitation has agreed to evaluate and provide sex-reassignment surgery if recommended to Shiloh Quine, a transgender inmate. This is an important step forward in the ongoing effort to protect transgender rights in California.”

Ah ok, thanks!

Thanks for posting the link OP.

I’m watching it now, this is an interesting conversation that is much more informed that I anticipated - these men have done some research on this issue.

Would imagine the idea of free health/surgery for prisoners is more emotive there than here due to their healthcare system.

Yes, exactly.

Sorry what advert? Just one of the Rep campaign ones? Not an advert for the podcast?

Would imagine the idea of free health/surgery for prisoners is more emotive there than here due to their healthcare system. It’s so different to ours, I’m not sure I could grasp what it evokes in voters.

If it’s the one I’m thinking of then it is incontrovertible evidence of her involvement. Might be why it was used? You cannot deny your part in it etc, and then it opens up all these other areas? Just a guess. Have seen child surgeries coming up in a few clips of the Rep rallies as well.

@biscuitandcake

Because they are being ultra careful
not to denounce the trans people themselves. They want the focus to be on the institutional change.

I think!

One way of putting it, I suppose!

The difference between 'fucked up' and 'fucked up more than you could ever imagine'?

Yes I do agree there are important differences between politics in the US and in the U.K.

But, why is the advert about giving trans prisoner's surgery, not any of those issues?

Politicians capitalising on things can be really good though! Regardless of their motives, if they are reacting to people's concerns by addressing those concerns it is good. That is how democracy is meant to work. But some of the current tactics seem to be to try to wind up/deliberately confuse the other side while appeasing their base. And then when the opposing side is angry or mocking of what they say, to say "see what they think about you" to the base. It isn't aiming at solving the problem, because ironically if they solved the problem that would give them less ammunition in the future. It is very different to how the UK conservative party went about things. Even Tory politicians I really don't like didn't seem to use the same tactics. I think a lot of women in the UK did a lot of work to raise politicians conciousness of the clash between women's and trans rights. But even though the Tories are much more on board than Labour, it was possible to shift Labour's position too even if it meant dragging some politicians kicking and screaming to reality. I don't think its going to be as possible to do that in the US and I don't think people like Vance want it.

Does anyone know who the trans person was who leaked Vance's DMs with them to the New York Times after he criticised child transitioning? He mentioned this on the podcast. I'm presuming a male person as he used female pronouns and he was friends in some way with this person.

Biden destroyed women's rights on day one. Harris put men in women's prisons and she is proud of it. Apparently unfussed about women being raped. Some states (like CA) are taking children away from their parents if their parents correctly refuse to "affirm" them in their "gender" and avoid causing lasting damage.

The Dems need to own what they have done here. This is all on the record and to their shame.

@MillyMichaelson I said it elsewhere. But people with genuine concerns about immigration, about decline in their home town etc will hear Vance say "they are eating the cats" and hear it as him expressing the same (nuanced, often very reasonable things) that they believe. Meanwhile people who aren't in that headspace, will literally hear what he actually said and what is worse assume that anyone who then expresses agreement with Vance/tries to talk about the issue he raises in more detail, agrees with what he said. It creates much deeper divides and makes it impossible to fix the problems. And I think the same will happen with this. People who are worried about the issuing of puberty blockers to children, men in women's prisons etc will hear him and think "well at least he is talking about the issue. Even if he isn't expressing it right. He must mean...". And people who aren't on board will just assume that the "TERFs" are just angry and misinformed. Vance is really clever so I can only assume its deliberate. And it's not the same as someone expressing themselves more forcefully than I would, or having much stronger opinions on pronouns etc.

The problem is that the politicians and media on left have abandoned people with perfectly normal, reasonable views about these topics. Of course the right will capitalise on it. What do you expect?

Fair enough @LifeExperience I'm sure I heard it on a podcast but I listen to so many I've no idea which one now!

The rest of my point still stands I believe 😁

@MillyMichaelson I said it elsewhere. But people with genuine concerns about immigration, about decline in their home town etc will hear Vance say "they are eating the cats" and hear it as him expressing the same (nuanced, often very reasonable things) that they believe. Meanwhile people who aren't in that headspace, will literally hear what he actually said and what is worse assume that anyone who then expresses agreement with Vance/tries to talk about the issue he raises in more detail, agrees with what he said. It creates much deeper divides and makes it impossible to fix the problems. And I think the same will happen with this. People who are worried about the issuing of puberty blockers to children, men in women's prisons etc will hear him and think "well at least he is talking about the issue. Even if he isn't expressing it right. He must mean...". And people who aren't on board will just assume that the "TERFs" are just angry and misinformed. Vance is really clever so I can only assume its deliberate. And its not the same as someone expressing themselves more forcefully than I would, or having much stronger opinions on pronouns etc.

Not true. The original trans-surgery in federal prisons law was written under Obama. It was fought in the courts under Trump, who managed to delay it under his tenure, although some inmates did receive hormones under his tenure while the case was being fought. The first federal prisoner trans surgery was not done until 2022 under Biden.

My source is the NY Times.

Try around the 35(?) minute mark for Malaga and what's happening to children.

That's great, thank you. I'm listening to it now at a variety of different speeds due to doing other stuff so I can't really give time stamps and so for they've covered the quasi religious nature of the ideology, and about children. They're talking about sports at the moment. Joe mentioned the pool tournament here.

I'm also pretty sure (read it somewhere and can't remember where now) that this was the law during the Trump administration so it's ridiculous to suggest that it'll be a Harris initiative when they were also happy to fund/oversee it.

Fuck these guys. If they said it was noon you'd check your watch.

I hope nobody is stupid and narrow-minded enough to vote for them just because they've been politically astute enough to lean on this as a wedge issue.