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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I like the idea of this option for women - air travel

32 replies

DOBARDAN · 05/08/2024 09:13

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/indigo-introduces-female-friendly-seat-selection-during-web-check-in-announces-special-flight-sale-starting-at-rs-1199-11716960304002.html

IndiGo Airlines has launched a new feature during web check-in that allows female passengers to see which seats have been pre booked by other female passengers. This initiative aims to make air travel a more comfortable and safe experience for women, in that they can choose to sit away from men. If you are a male passenger wishing to pre book, the seats immediately around a female's pre booked seat will be blanked out.

Many complaints are made from women of being harassed or sexually assaulted whilst on their journey and the fact you can't always change your seat mid flight, (and you most definitely cannot exit the plane to get away), is a compounding factor. Of course, you can always alert aircraft staff, but this would be after the event.

I don't know if this initiative will work but I like the idea. My own personal experience of flying is feeling very awkward getting out of my seat and having to inch past a seated male passenger, in order to go to the loo. It almost feels like you're having to do a lap dance! The same awkwardness applies should the man want to get out of , or get back into, his seat. For this reason alone I would opt to sit away from men.

IndiGo introduces female-friendly seat selection during web check-in; announces special flight sale starting at ₹1,199 | Mint

IndiGo has launched a new feature that allows female passengers to view seats pre-booked by other female passengers during web check-in. This feature aims to enhance travel comfort and safety.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/indigo-introduces-female-friendly-seat-selection-during-web-check-in-announces-special-flight-sale-starting-at-rs-1199-11716960304002.html

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FictionalCharacter · 07/08/2024 19:06

Ramblingnamechanger · 06/08/2024 10:34

I think you are wrong. In most western countries men will do this ,particularly on public transport. There have been many threads here on MN describing the daily sexual harassment of women and girls.

India does seem to be extremely bad in this respect, in that public harassment of women by men, including in groups, is very much accepted by men. They call it "Eve teasing" which minimises how serious it is.

DOBARDAN · 07/08/2024 18:38

Christinapple · 07/08/2024 13:35

"What does this teach our boys? that they're all pervs?"

I recall maybe a decade ago an airline, BA I think, introduced a policy where men couldn't sit next to any children except their own, causing controversy as it gave the message all men are dangerous and can't be trusted even with ~200 witnesses present. It came to an end and didn't catch on.

I don't think this teaches boys that they're all pervs, just that some men are pervs and because, it seems, there is no way of getting this type of man to behave, and because so many complaints of sexual assault/harassment were received by the airline, preventative measures needed to be put in place to protect women and children.

You mention BA and their policy of not allowing men to sit with children, except their own. Again, it doesn't mean all men are dangerous, but enough of them are dangerous and there is no way of telling, as they board the plane, which men will act appropriately and which men won't. Women and children may appreciate a way of travelling by air and not having to consider what kind of man is sitting next to them.

I can appreciate it is a major headache trying to seat everyone to their needs and wants, no doubt the IndiGo initiative will go the same way as BA's, although trains in India do have separate carriages for women only, so who knows.

I doubt all 200 people (witnesses) on the plane would be able to see an assault happening, even people sitting in the same row won't be continually looking in one direction, let alone hear a man who mumbles sexual references to the person sat next to him.

These men are crafty, they do things 'accidentally', a touch of your leg, resting their leg up against yours, falling 'asleep' and leaning all over you etc. etc.

OP posts:
Christinapple · 07/08/2024 13:35

"What does this teach our boys? that they're all pervs?"

I recall maybe a decade ago an airline, BA I think, introduced a policy where men couldn't sit next to any children except their own, causing controversy as it gave the message all men are dangerous and can't be trusted even with ~200 witnesses present. It came to an end and didn't catch on.

Christinapple · 07/08/2024 13:31

Here's a better option, when booking flights passengers who wish to drink alcohol on or just before the flight will need to state so. Non-drinkers who wish to be seated away from drinkers can say so where the system will try to assist when choosing seats.

IMO drunks tend to make up at least 99% of problematic passengers on flights.

TempestTost · 06/08/2024 17:45

jammypancakes · 06/08/2024 16:01

What does this teach our boys? that they're all pervs?

I'm not saying I know a solution, but I despair as it's always a few shits that make it worse for everyone. If it wasn't for them, we can all sleep comfortably in the nude without being harassed.

We need better enforcement.

Edited

I don't think it does necessarily, any more than single sex facilities does. It depends on how you frame it, and one way it can be framed is however you slice it, there are always a certain number of pervs. Enforcement can help some but not wipe that out.

I think women differ significantly on how far they like to take those kind of social options for single sex only.

Kucinghitam · 06/08/2024 16:55

Planesmistakenforstars · 06/08/2024 14:33

I've seen similar on other airlines operating from/within predominantly Muslim countries - when you go to reserve a seat online it displays "M" and "F" to indicate whether a man or a woman has pre-booked which seats. I'm going to be really unhelpful and not remember which ones though. I was travelling a lot in SE Asia so I think it was Malaysian Airlines and one of the Indonesian ones. This was presumably for religious observance rather than an initiative to keep women safe, but could be used the same way. The blanking out seats around women that IndiGo are doing doesn't sound workable in practice though.

I don't recall Malaysia Airlines offering such information. But I can confirm that Malaysian long-distance trains do provide the M/F information (you are required to provide passenger details upon booking).

StarlightLady · 06/08/2024 16:38

jammypancakes · 06/08/2024 16:01

What does this teach our boys? that they're all pervs?

I'm not saying I know a solution, but I despair as it's always a few shits that make it worse for everyone. If it wasn't for them, we can all sleep comfortably in the nude without being harassed.

We need better enforcement.

Edited

This!

l work with men and women, l socialise with men and women, l even have a friend who met how husband on a plane!

l want to respect men around me and expect them to do the same to me. But when l want a wee, l want just around me, women!

jammypancakes · 06/08/2024 16:01

What does this teach our boys? that they're all pervs?

I'm not saying I know a solution, but I despair as it's always a few shits that make it worse for everyone. If it wasn't for them, we can all sleep comfortably in the nude without being harassed.

We need better enforcement.

Planesmistakenforstars · 06/08/2024 14:33

I've seen similar on other airlines operating from/within predominantly Muslim countries - when you go to reserve a seat online it displays "M" and "F" to indicate whether a man or a woman has pre-booked which seats. I'm going to be really unhelpful and not remember which ones though. I was travelling a lot in SE Asia so I think it was Malaysian Airlines and one of the Indonesian ones. This was presumably for religious observance rather than an initiative to keep women safe, but could be used the same way. The blanking out seats around women that IndiGo are doing doesn't sound workable in practice though.

TempestTost · 06/08/2024 13:25

I think if this is seen as ok, it should also be ok for men who don't want to sit next to women for religious and other reasons. The two are not necessarily as far apart as people seem to think, many orthodox religious people, be they Jewish, Muslim, etc, see this kind of rule as a way of protecting women and avoiding the appearance of impropriety.

I'm not saying it would be wrong to allow it - but I think very tricky to manage unless done as sections - male, female, mixed, rather like first class, economy, etc.

ScholesPanda · 06/08/2024 12:10

I can see why people would support this, but I can see how it could cause a number of unintended consequences. It also does nothing to challenge men's behaviour, just puts the onus on women to avoid it.
So if the women's section is full, or you can't find a seat next to a woman, are you fair game to be assaulted or harassed? Some men will definitely see it like this.

Ramblingnamechanger · 06/08/2024 10:34

StuckOnTheCeiling · 06/08/2024 10:17

No, whilst misogyny and harassment are common worldwide, there are very few countries where random groping is as big an issue as it is in India.

I think you are wrong. In most western countries men will do this ,particularly on public transport. There have been many threads here on MN describing the daily sexual harassment of women and girls.

StuckOnTheCeiling · 06/08/2024 10:17

Ramblingnamechanger · 05/08/2024 11:47

“It is a shame that India concentrates on this kind of thing rather than actually making it socially unacceptable for men to grope and harass women.”

could be said about all countries..At least in India we have an option.

No, whilst misogyny and harassment are common worldwide, there are very few countries where random groping is as big an issue as it is in India.

StarlightLady · 06/08/2024 07:39

Seating allocation is a nightmare for airlines as it is. We live in a mixed sex world. We need to learn to cope with that. And l say that as a feminist. This is different to areas which require a safe space for women; aircraft cabins are supervised. If a man is behaving inappropriately we should not accept that for minute and report it to the cabin crew.

RedToothBrush · 06/08/2024 07:30

gettingbacktobeingmeagain · 05/08/2024 11:03

Easier surely to have women's areas, men's areas and mixed areas...of course there'll always be one idiot...but...

The areas could be kept to their category early in the booking process and then made more general later to avoid the problem outlined above, so you'd just need to book in early to make sure you got your preference?

I don't think they can do that due to needing to spread weight distribution.

GHSP · 06/08/2024 07:02

I posted this a month ago when I was on a flight. Yes, I’d like to be able to avoid it.

C4tintherug · 06/08/2024 06:59

I also think it is due to religious reasons- I have been on 2 flights (both from New York to London) where my daughter has been asked to move because a man couldn’t sit next to her- she refused and we refused as her parents.
the last flight was late taking off due to the number of men that were struggling to find somewhere to sit that wasn’t next to a woman - and women were refusing to move (good for them!!)

TemuSpecialBuy · 06/08/2024 06:47

lcakethereforeIam · 05/08/2024 10:58

There have been problems with men, I think mostly very orthodox Jewish men, kicking off when airlines have seated them next to women? This might help avoid that type of situation.

I had this on a flight to canada.
he didn’t kick off per se he but I just swapped with a man one row in front.

I like this initiative but think it’s depressing and demonstrates societal regression that it’s needed.
i also think it’s only workable for a section of seating rather than all seating. I also think it will be abused by perverts who identify as women and want to cause a scene make some point/ make women uncomfortable

Catsmere · 06/08/2024 06:15

HughsMermaid · 05/08/2024 11:41

Men who identify as women will book the seats, sadly.

Yes, and scream about discrimination if they're refused.

biscuitandcake · 05/08/2024 22:29

"If you are a male passenger wishing to pre book, the seats immediately around a female's pre booked seat will be blanked out."

But if I was a man, and saw a block of greyed out seats, I would think, hmmmm a woman is sat in the middle of those greyed out seats. If I select a seat right next to the greyed out block, I will have at least one free seat on one side since a man can't sit there and neither will another woman. WIN. I would then (if I was normal) proceed to spread out over my free seat during the flight or (if I was a perve) perve on the lady one seat along from me/diagonally across from me, to my pervy hearts content.

Ramblingnamechanger · 05/08/2024 11:47

“It is a shame that India concentrates on this kind of thing rather than actually making it socially unacceptable for men to grope and harass women.”

could be said about all countries..At least in India we have an option.

StuckOnTheCeiling · 05/08/2024 11:45

I think it’s an interesting initiative, will have to see how it pans out in reality. I’ve travelled in women only sections of trains in India.

It is a shame that India concentrates on this kind of thing rather than actually making it socially unacceptable for men to grope and harass women.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/08/2024 11:43

They obviously will.

HughsMermaid · 05/08/2024 11:41

Men who identify as women will book the seats, sadly.